pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

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xpost Point being, learn to read

Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:12 (seven years ago) link

the whole point of lists is for people to argue about them and talk about them online that's why every outlet does them

Something I honestly don't know--does the attention such a list gets increase readership, or ad revenue, or something? I say that because one time I'm guessing such a list did increase readership (goes back a ways, and I have no actual proof) was the Top 100 Spin did in the late '80s. Whatever you thought about the list itself--a mix of great picks and empty/silly provocation, as I recall--it was sufficiently different from a Rolling Stone list at the time, and Spin was new enough, that they might have actually picked up readers. These lists are ubiquitous now (music and film).

― clemenza, Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:11 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lists always did well for my previous publication (and also generated a lot of extra hits because ppl were a lot more likely to comment on the story)

Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:27 (seven years ago) link

i'm putting the line on how long Ilx is going to actively discuss this list of songs on pitchfork at five more days
and then betting the over

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:31 (seven years ago) link

(xpost) I suspected they did produce tangible results. An obvious case probably being Pazz & Jop--I know they don't keep it alive because they're committed to tradition or anything.

clemenza, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link

people like lists.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:38 (seven years ago) link

Also Sight & Sound's once-a-decade historical poll, which is undoubtedly their biggest-selling issue every 10 years. Although there, I bet there is some measure of commitment to their position as arbiter of the canon or whatever.

clemenza, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link

i tend to like quirkier/weirder/niche/idiosyncratic lists best though. most regular lists don't take a whole lot of thought to put together.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link

sure, i like lists. why do we have to keep numbering the stupid things, though? can we really continue to pretend it's meaningful to try and determine whether black flag's "nervous breakdown" is a better song than "darkness at the edge of town"?

a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:42 (seven years ago) link

That's the reason they get talked about though.

Evan, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:43 (seven years ago) link

Nate Silver developed a formula for that--you have to quantify these things.

clemenza, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:44 (seven years ago) link

i ignore numbering. it doesn't really matter. maybe a top ten does or whatever. pretty arbitrary otherwise.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:44 (seven years ago) link

okay this made me laugh (from the Top 25 70s videos list):

Few bands of the late ’60s and early ’70s were more melancholy than the Bee Gees, from “I Started a Joke” to “I Lay Down and Die,” “How Do You Mend a Broken Heart,” and “Don’t Wanna Live Inside Myself.” Sad!

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link

devo rules dude

― a (waterface), Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they deserve to be on the list

― a (waterface), Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

esp given p4k's core musical heritage. no Pixies without Devo imo

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:53 (seven years ago) link

That's the reason they get talked about though.

― Evan

not in my experience! all the arguing i've seen about this list is not about about whether "metal guru" should have been #150 AT LEAST but about what made it on the list and what didn't.

a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 19:55 (seven years ago) link

most regular lists don't take a whole lot of thought to put together.

― scott seward, Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:41 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tons of intra-staff acrimony and bitterness tho iirc

Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 20:11 (seven years ago) link

well, yeah, if other people are involved it could be a hassle, i guess. but a list like this one could be put together in an hour or two by one person and then that person just gets people to write about the songs. voila. which is probably how a lot of internet lists are made nowadays. doesn't have to be time-consuming.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 20:17 (seven years ago) link

which is why i tend to like more personal/obsessive lists by people who are nuts like me.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 20:22 (seven years ago) link

wait are there seriously no bee gees on the main list?

you think Lou Bega gave up after Mambo Number One??? (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 20:38 (seven years ago) link

not in my experience! all the arguing i've seen about this list is not about about whether "metal guru" should have been #150 AT LEAST but about what made it on the list and what didn't.

― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Wednesday, August 24, 2016 3:55 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fair enough but I would imagine one of the most popular discussion topics in regards to this list is how things rank and whether or not Pitchfork did so correctly.

Evan, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 21:07 (seven years ago) link

nothing by Heart, would've figured "barracuda" as a lock.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 24 August 2016 21:21 (seven years ago) link

these kind of conversations always remind me of when the Rolling Stone Album Guide came out in late '04 and the first I heard that it existed was when somebody (on ilx iiirc) noted there was no Metallica in the damn thing

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 23:57 (seven years ago) link

or to quote amazon

1.0 out of 5 stars
By ProperGander News (Dr. Emil Shuffhausen) on August 9, 2005

Many reasonable music fans would be utterly baffled by the obtuse, eccentric, inconsistent, inaccurate, incomplete, scattershot, scatterbrained, and ultimately irrelevant nature of this Fourth Edition of the once-proud Rolling Stone brand Album Guide. How can such a fat, sprawling, ostensibly labor-intensive work be so shoddy and gap-filled?

One scarcely knows where to begin in criticizing this book. Some have mentioned the puzzling, random way in which artists are included or excluded. For example, here are a few of the classic rock/pop/soul artists that are not included at all (love 'em or hate 'em, they are significant):

Metallica
Emerson, Lake, & Palmer
George Harrison
Asia
Deep Purple
Nine Inch Nails
Dan Fogelberg
Dixie Dregs
Lionel Richie
Al Stewart
Marshall Tucker Band
Alan Parsons
Ambrosia
Gerry Rafferty
Chris Rea
Badfinger
Vangelis
The Move
Rick Wakeman
Maze featuring Frankie Beverly
Crowded House (The Finn Brothers and Split Enz also)
Tom Jones
Toto

And, if you're going to include some country artists, how can you leave out longtime major artists such as Alabama, George Strait, John Denver, Martina McBride, Andy Griggs, Toby Keith, Kenny Chesney, The Judds, Kenny Rogers, Brad Paisley, or any number of others?

Plus, albums in the Christian and Gospel genres are almost completely blackballed here, in a neat bit of exclusion, despite the fact that there are some worthy artists out there who have made groundbreaking, compelling, beautiful, rocking, daring, and moving music over the years.

Oh, but the wise editors made sure we got to read reviews on such "vital" artists as:

The Dictators
Boredoms
Aceyalone
Kid Koala
Gorky's Zygotic Mynci
Buju Banton
Marky Mark
Beanie Sigal
Spain
Green Velvet
Black Dice
Roni Size/Reprazent
Saint Etienne
Amy Rigby
Swell Maps
Pernice Brothers
The Sea and Cake
Mogwai
Shellac

Please note: the above list represents just a five-minute random thumb-through of the book, which is chock full of obscure, irrelavent "artists" who the editors feel the need to inflict upon the reader/listener. This is typical of the sneering arrogance that pervades this book like stink on a rat.

Enough of that. Let's just say the selection of artists is, at times, incredibly random.

Among an unwieldy, inconsistent, motely crew of writers in the book, perhaps the worst offender here is "reveiwer" Rob Sheffield who could not possibly be more in love with himself. He forgets that it's all about the music, not about him. His comments strain to be witty, but come off as the snotty spoutings of an immature little smart-aleck brat. He is not nearly as informed as he imagines, and if being cool were a physical attribute, then he would need a hip replacement.

Of course, Sheffield is not the only malcontent turned loose with a pen; another standout in the lowdown category is Keith Harris, who is obscene, offensive, and guilty of being the pot who calls the kettle a pot...ie, hurling accusations of blandness and lack of imagination at certain artists. And doing so in an unecessarily graphic and nasty way.

This book could have used some writing from a thoughtful, knowledgable reviewer like David Wild, but instead, what we get is mostly a bunch of juveniles--or crusty old windbags who are way past their prime and locked into some kind of mental prison (JD Considine, I'm looking at you, kid). I have seldom read a work that was more rigidly politically correct; the pandering, patronizing, drooling worship offered up to all things hip-hop, for example, is ludacris...I mean, ludicrous.

But, at the same time, there is a hateful animus against anything to do with progressive rock. The few prog bands that are actually mentioned here are, by and large, mercilessly slagged. Particularly egregious is the revisionist and pernicious caterwauling against the fantastic music of Kansas. Or parroting the phony worm-brained canard that the genius Jeff Lynne is somehow a "hamhanded" producer.

But, of course, every MC and hip hop pimp wanna-be woman hater is a genius, according to this book. How trite. Adhering to the old pat standard of attacking art and defending "trendy" rubbish is so tired and shopworn; but, it's just another facet of this book's worthlessness. Obsequious political correctness and conformity is the order of the day among these music writers.

As others have noted, the "star ratings system" in this book does not always match up with the descriptions written below them. Some four star albums are ripped and some two star albums are hailed. What gives? Didn't anybody proof this tree-slaughtering tome?

What a wasted project. With review sites such as Amazon flourishing, the need for "experts" at ROLLING STONE to tell us what is supposed to be cool is vanishing. Perhaps, if we are all lucky, RS will not see the need to get around to publishing a 5th Edition and this 4th Edition will sink into the swamp of it's own rot.

Too bad. I own earlier editions of the RS Album Guide and it used to be of some use. No more. To steal a quote from an earlier RS book, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 23:58 (seven years ago) link

speaking of which, i went head to head with that loser lester bangs in rolling stone recently. to heck with that guy!

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/10-classic-albums-rolling-stone-originally-panned-w429731/black-sabbath---black-sabbath-1970-w429740

scott seward, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link

lol at calling Sabbath "Just like Cream! But worse."

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:03 (seven years ago) link

nothing beats "bullshit necromancy, drug-impaired reaction time, long solos"

brimstead, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:07 (seven years ago) link

most olde tyme negative reviews just make things sound awesome to me. it's the xgau effect.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:08 (seven years ago) link

The Dictators are relatively vital.

clemenza, Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:12 (seven years ago) link

i'll take gorky's zygotic mynci over deep purple five days out of seven, but if i wanted to know more about gorky's zygotic mynci i don't think my first instinct would be to see what rolling stone thought of them

a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Thursday, 25 August 2016 00:37 (seven years ago) link

well they got Pinkerton right.

campreverb, Thursday, 25 August 2016 03:14 (seven years ago) link

Fuck that guy. The Sea and Cake are awesome.

Austin, Thursday, 25 August 2016 03:50 (seven years ago) link

With review sites such as Amazon flourishing

veggie sticks potato snacks (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 25 August 2016 04:50 (seven years ago) link

Scott, that link is amazing. LMAO at Rolling Stone's pan of Are You Experienced. Who the FUCK pays attention to Jimi Hendrix's lyrics?!

Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:34 (seven years ago) link

Adhering to the old pat standard of attacking art and defending "trendy" rubbish is so tired and shopworn

fresh and original observation

blafe and sand (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 25 August 2016 11:40 (seven years ago) link

xp to "dreaming" being disco blondie -- it's the dancing queen rip does that count

a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Thursday, 25 August 2016 14:32 (seven years ago) link

Does anyone really, really, really like "What's Going On"? I've always felt that it's the r&b counterpart of the equally boring "Imagine". The message does all the heavy lifting, while the music is kind of a snore. Feel like it's been cruising on pure inertia for quite some time.

Darin, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:35 (seven years ago) link

i'm pretty sure everybody likes it. but we need to move on now. this list is so yesterday.

scott seward, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:38 (seven years ago) link

Music in Imagine is amazing. Whats Goin On also great bar a couple tracks, great sound.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link

"what's going on" would make my top 5 or top 10. it's no donnie joe emerson though

brimstead, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link

I like "What's Going On" (more so than "Imagine," which stopped being interesting to me as soon as the subversive kick of "no religion" wore off for me) but to affirm your point, I suppose, I don't feel all that passionate about defending it.

rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:42 (seven years ago) link

maybe I've been de-sensitized to both songs. I dunno. I get fidgety when I hear political songs.

Darin, Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link

I get fidgety when I watch political movies, so that I get.

rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:44 (seven years ago) link

all songs are political

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:51 (seven years ago) link

my favorite political song is "hallogallo"

a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Thursday, 25 August 2016 23:54 (seven years ago) link

'Inner City Blues' and 'Mercy Mercy Me' are the better choices from that album.

Austin, Friday, 26 August 2016 01:24 (seven years ago) link

yep

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 26 August 2016 01:28 (seven years ago) link

my favorite Gaye these days is In Our Lifetime.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 26 August 2016 01:28 (seven years ago) link

a really, really good record

The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 26 August 2016 02:33 (seven years ago) link

distant lover's my pick for the 70's

Heez, Friday, 26 August 2016 02:38 (seven years ago) link

Trouble Man soundtrack and I Want You are my go-to Marvins. because i'm really dope.

scott seward, Friday, 26 August 2016 03:22 (seven years ago) link

I Want You is clearly the best thing he ever did.

Austin, Friday, 26 August 2016 04:03 (seven years ago) link


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