Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

Q was one of TNG's best characters/ideas

i listened a different podcast called Mission Log all the way through TOS and into part of TNG before it got overwhleming... not sure i could do it again with another show

Q is a good character but a horrible plot device when dumped into a show. Luckily they used the whole Q thing very, very sparingly. It's deus ex machina joking around on screen.

Voyager begins in a similar way, with a near-omniscient being dumping them into the premise.

yeah it was a fine line to tread but I think they did it well in general - Q's appearance gave an "anything can happen!" feel to the plots, which injected a bit of excitement/uncertainty into what was generally a very staid and predictable environment.

They eventually got a little overused by late Voyager but the Borg are really a good counterpoint to the Federation. Equal treatment of all species, post-scarcity economy (no economy at all, really) and uninterested in absorbing whole pre-technical civilizations into their organization. Outside of the technical trappings, the only real difference was the recognition of individuality as useful.

the mechanics (as opposed to the moral or conceptual subjects) of tng plots are all magic plots resolved by geordie casting spells, so Q is fine

he has a tendency to trigger a Silliness that can be disappointing if you were expecting spaceships and course-plotting -- the robin hood ep etc -- but w TOS you have to make a similar peace w the theme park planets they occasionally visit.

^^^

Borg and Q are easily my two favorite things about TNG

xp

yeah mh otm the borg are the best trek antagonists. (well maybe the terran empire.) the romulans in TOS serve a similar function of shadowing the (earlier + more imperialist) good guys -- as warlike cousins to vulcans they're temperamentally a terran/vulcan hybrid and these are the two races seen to have the most influence over the culture+practice of starfleet; romulan episodes (thinking of "balance of terror" and "the enterprise incident") often involve the pressures of romulan politics and the relationships of individuals to institutions blah blah -- but the borg are a much more complete and scary idea of a mirror-enemy.

("the culture+practice of starfleet" unnecessary to speculate on actually sry -- the enterprise's command itself is a terran/vulcan hybrid, as are almost all of kirk's decisons)

Guinan is the best TNG character

Challops!

Guinan rules, Q drools

Guinan is awesome, as is - which surprised me on the rewatch - the actress playing Doc Crusher, who *really* deserved better material.

This episode, when she drops major truth on a de-powered Q

http://66.media.tumblr.com/4d154b211d09ac61ac7e22584d8e8837/tumblr_o9nt93stpN1ufg9h8o1_540.png

Between shoe-horning Guinan into meeting Mark Twain and Captain Kirk, it's weird that the Mark Twain thing was handled better story-wise.

Guinan second least favorite TNG character.

guinan's whole approach to talking to and helping ppl always struck me as v condescending

she has like a millennium worth of experience and isn't just going "fuck you dumbass ppl" all the time so I have to give her credit

all the women in the show in TNG were criminally underwritten or condescended to, to the point where they were protesting, having their parts deleted or cut down due to their complaints, or leaving the show during the first few seasons!

The Greatest Gen podcast has the advantage over Mission Log on that each ep is only 30 mins or so and they take great delight in ripping on how dumb/sexist/racist the show could get early on as well as how seriously the Mission Log guy take it.

Also, pointing out the surprisingly fun acting scenes you'd sometimes get even in the beginning, like when Riker and Guinan are showing Wesley how to flirt, and clearly enjoying themselves.

Yeah, the early writing and production was bad enough that 2 out of the 3 female leads quit after S1, and Troi was underwritten so much that Guinan as bartender was far better ship's counselor than the actual ship's counselor.

tbf a number of bartenders are better counselors than some actual counselors

the early writing still produced some classics and later writing still produced some god-awful stories (looking at you, season 5).

Gates McFadden didn't quit, she was fired. What a dumb decision -- I agree that she was one of the best actors in the show.

That part I didn't know; I thought she left of her own volition. So they fired her, brought in Pulaski for a season, then switched back?

agree that McFadden was one of the better actors in the cast and kind of underserved by the material she was given

she gets even less to do in the movies. riker at least gets a joystick.

I think the whole cast is pretty iconic and great, even Troi and Wesley.

I've always found it weird that Riker and Picard, while both awesome characters, don't really have much chemistry with one another. There's a great episode in the first season (!), 11001001, where they get drunk on the holodeck together. But the relationship never really gets developed.

It's not a flaw, I suppose, because I kind of enjoy the sang froid between them, and better that than some sort of bro thing. But it is odd.

that's true I never felt like I really understood their relationship. do they even like each other? is there a rivalry, or more of an admiring son/father thing? But there's nothing. It's like they exist in parallel universes.

always thought it was a father/son or mentor/mentee relationship. a lot was made on the show on the fact that Riker had many opportunities to leave and become Captain on his own starship, but preferred to stay on as #1

#1 dad issues
https://67.media.tumblr.com/aa9e166d7b09027bca8bfc6d1ef6f2e2/tumblr_n0mxim20MY1ree9sso1_400.gif

Now I want to watch that episode again.

I watched some TNG episode last night where Riker falls in love with a member of an androgynous species and oh man the painful conversations about sex and gender interspersed with the usual nonsensical technobabble about mapping null space (ooh I see what you guys did there) - it was fun in a goofy way but also very rmde and I didn't make it to the end

they definitely could've done a lot better. but considering the time it was probably the best they could do... remember the flap over one lesbian kiss in DS9 a few years later?

lol no

yeah it could've been a LOT worse, it's just amusingly anachronistic now. and tbf the null space = mysterious androgyne analogy was kinda clever/not as hamfistedly obvious as it could've been

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/b/b9/Riker_imitates_Picard.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150101040458&path-prefix=en

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/Ov2P5pf

Trying to find the shit-eating grin Riker delivers and this is the closest thing.

omg that picard look

was going to nominate Lwxana Troi for best character earlier but I couldn't even type it with a straight face

I read on the Internet so it must be true but Jonathan Frakes lobbied to have the person playing the androgyne be a guy, but he was overruled.

I love that episode! It's like Riker's Casablanca. The gender politics are crude, but by TNG's nugatory standards it's a pretty good effort. The ending is great. Come on! If it's not completely ridiculous but strangely moving at the same time, it's not TNG.

I found a pretty good pre-beard shit eating grin:

http://startrekcolours.tumblr.com/image/129525683395

That is:

http://67.media.tumblr.com/0744879bd3f183bc1effa2c2b68c86f8/tumblr_nuzz6y1MEv1ufg9h8o1_1280.jpg

The ending is great.

lol I wouldn't know

The ending is a full on everybody fucks up and nobody's happy unhappy ending - i.e. every X-Files ending - but unusual for TNG.

just read the wiki summary yeah that does sound uncharacteristic

This ha been mentioned elsewherr(the Greatest Gen guys do a lot) but it's kind of funny/sad that the culture at the time sorta prevented a lot of the clueless writers of accurately writing dialogue for the culture the show supposedly had. You have multiple middle-aged guys with a pretty sexist mindset trying to write for a post-patriarchal society,

it has to be reiterated that of the tv shows, Enterprise has the worst theme music. it might be one of the worst tv songs, period

i literally couldn't believe it was the theme music for a star trek show the first time i heard it

originally written for the patch adams movie