Stone Temple Pilots

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9941/seward.php

Having said that, one of the best, most underrated songs in that vein is "Skin Up Pin Up" by Mansun & 808 State.

Well yeah, but pop isn't just that or we wouldn't be here in the first place (unless all we talked about was Gary Numan and Prince, which is quite all right by me). I mean, when NIN first surfaced all the industrial hyperbores were annoyed precisely because they WERE pop, among other reasons because they were getting above average (if not regular rotation) MTV play as early as 1990. And they had good beats you could dance too and all that -- if stuff like "Head Like a Hole" WASN'T catchy you can bet you wouldn't have heard much beyond that first album anyway, but it was that popularity that led to further attention, the Lollapalooza slot, the break with TVT for Interscope etc. etc. *shrug* I mean, stuff gets big that lots of people like that you might not! We all know this!

But unlike Nine Inch Nails, they had no delusions of being "original" or
being "artists" or whatever. They were JUST a damn pop band. Which may well be why they're being sneered at here.

Uh, refer to Dan's point. Chuck, I'm surprised you of all people are arguing absolutes here. There's no dividing line except the one in your head, but there's no dividing line anyone has except that individual one in their head anyway.

haha that was BOOM

Heh, true. Mind you, this was mostly based on their boring live shows opening up for among others Front 242 (who I KNOW you hate, I admit ;-)). I just remember the lead dude screaming while wearing leather chaps, which wasn't as cool to my mind as Carla Bozulich doing the same thing in Ethyl Meatplow.

the dividing line *always* exists

One can exist but it is never fixed. I think its fluidity is actually the best reason for its potential existence.

You already KNOW it's my opinion, right? Jeez.

Well, yeah, but if we're going to use words like 'pop' without specifying what exactly it means then all anyone would ever do is talk at cross-purposes, and maybe that's all that can be done anyway. You dislike a band for not being poppy, I think they're plenty pop, nobody is right and therefore we just...talk. Which, again, is no bad thing.

STP are one of the best singles bands of the 90's. BIG DUMB FUN. Purple was also pretty damn great and essential to my pre-pubescent experience. The lyrics are utter shit BUT THE RIFFS, MAAN... 'EY PUMMEL... The first rock band I fell in love with at the tender age of 9. SCREW ALL Y'ALL, BIYATCHES!

It's funny that this comes up, because this week I pulled out the old NIN cds for the first time in at least a year and a half, and I was happy that all of my favorites ("Closer," "Into The Void," "Suck," "Heresy," "March of the Pigs," "The Perfect Drug," "Where Is Everybody?") still sounded pretty good. I can't listen to NIN for more than a half hour at a time, though. I reach my threshold very quickly, and I probably won't listen to NIN again for another year probably. But it's okay. It's good stuff. Sometimes it feels nice to feel 14 again, the further you get away from that time.

I mean, it's not like I've been defending LIVE or anybody. (Now THERE'S a band who deserves lots of blame for '90s alt rock radio...)

If only they were Sparks.

Though I'll take "Jeremy" over all the early STP bloaters, it's got more drama & crescendo-action.

Well, my point wasn't merely predicting that they'd HAVE a best of album! It was in my 500 (really 600) top metal albums book; I said that once STP put one out, it would probably DESERVE to be in the book (at least if it included four specific songs, two of which, as I mention above, it DOESN'T have by the way). But they had no albums at the TIME that I thought were good enough. Hope that makes sense....

Hey, I live with some very extinct books, I know the feeling!

Chuck spake: Gravity Kills? -- they were doing the industrial rock thing as pop metal, pretty much -- Alex in NYC (or Alex in Manhattan, sorry, I always forget which) should really check out "Falls Apart," which sounds kinda like Killing Joke.

It's not Alex in Manhattan, it's Alex in MAIN-hattan, which is a town in Germany, I believe, and we are two entirely different individuals.

Gravity Kills? I get them all mixed up with Stabbing Westward and God Lives Underwater and all those other sub-NIN bands. I can't remember if it was Gravity Kills or Stabbing Westward who opened for Killing Joke in `94, but in any event they were dire. Moreover, with the possible exception of late, lamented and missing-in-action band Belfegore, I'm not really interested in bands who sound like Killing Joke. I mean, why eat beef jerky when you could eat Filet Mignon, eh?

As far as the Stone Temple Pederasts go,...well, I mean, it's kinda the same thing. Why would someone waste time listening to STP when thy could opt for the definite article? Sure, they wrote the occaissional decent tune (I didn't mind "Vaseline," and "Sex Type Thing" does have a great riff), but I'd much prefer to listen to, say, Soundgarden. Also, way too much drama in that band....and not even interesting drama at that.

Sounds like a rule I'd agree with, Chuck. And yes...both of those videos (Belfegore's manic clip for "All that I Wanted" and the backwards Japanese guy eating in the God Lives Underwater clip) can induce nauseau.

If I could go back in time, I'd tell 15-year old me that someday he would realize Sixteen Stone was better than Nevermind, just to see the look on my/his face.

That's ten songs right there. They'd probably include the failed follow-up singles from the last two records and a new song or two, I'm sure.

They really should put out a NIN best-of. That'd be good...it'd be something like this, probably - Head Like A Hole, Down In It, Sin, March of the Pigs, Closer, Hurt, Wish, Happiness In Slavery, Suck, Burn, Perfect Drug, Into the Void, We're In This Together. That's pretty tight. They'd probably find a way to fuck it up, though.

(I will not bring up "Starfuckers" because that song is SHITTY SHITTY.)

I've always hated "Terrible Lie."

How does that line go about the devil wanting to fuck him in the back of his car?