Lester Bangs - Classic or Carburetor Dung?

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Because he has such an ENGAGING style of writing....Because it's impossible to not relate to him on some level, and want to love it just as much as he does, even if you've never heard it.

-- David Allen (en@senbm), July 30th, 2003.

Many reasons to give a damn, but LB doesn't convince me to.

― mei (mei), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

er there is more to that piece than just the first paragraph yknow.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

No, I didn't know.

― mei (mei), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

time to go pick up a book then innit?

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

or: http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/reviews/astral.html

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

I like bang's aw piece, but only cuz I know and like his other stuff alot more - it's good to see him get gushy, astral weeks is like his hailey mathers. I like the father (meltzer) and the holy ghost (tosches) alot more than lb, but I still love lb plenty, enough that it pisses me off that jim derogatis his the officially sanctioned keeper of the flame now; bangs cronies should spend alot more time bitching about let it blurt (particularly since it's gonna be the lester bangs bio) than continuing to harp on about griel marcus' agenda pushing in psychotic reactions....

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

yeah, it's not really his best, but it's the one that first made me realize how good a writer he was. my favorite's probably "i saw god and/or tangerine dream."

greil marcus's agenda pushing amounted to including two pieces on elvis and nothing on black sabbath. that and calling bangs "the best writer in america." gee, what a rotten guy. let it blurt, meanwhile, includes about a million "wow, what a slob lester was" anecdotes and next to nothing about his actual writing. conclusion: jim derogatis is a twat.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

to be fair, lester bangs' elvis obit is probably pretty easily his most quoted piece (I remember seeing jane pauley quote it on something about elvis)

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

and I think it's the inclusion of 'the white noise supremacists' that really rankles the ranks

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

haha justyn i kill you with gun

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

well I agree with justyn. what's the 'agenda' here? Lester was a good writer (loads of US ILXORS may not agree bcz of the copyists but that's not my problem).

I still kill him with gun tho'.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 1 August 2003 09:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

time to go pick up a book then innit?

I'm not going to read more just to check I'm as uninterested in it as I am in what I've already read.

I _am_ intrigued as to why he's so revered though.

― mei (mei), Friday, 1 August 2003 10:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm not going to read more just to check I'm as uninterested in it as I am in what I've already read.

I _am_ intrigued as to why he's so revered though.

Gee, so I guess you just want someone to explain it to you? If you're not interested enough to try and find out for yourself . . .

― J (Jay), Friday, 1 August 2003 11:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

You're right in a way, I've read enough of him to know he's not for me, but I still don't know why he's so well liked.

I don't want someone to explian LB to me, but rather why they like him. In fact there are a few good answers like that above, so I think my question's answered.

While we're on the subject can someone explain the appeal of REM or U2?

― mei (mei), Friday, 1 August 2003 11:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

Interesting mechanism at work whereby the Count Five were, in part, great precisely because of their inconsequentiality and yet:

"Paul McCartney makes lovely boutique tapes, resolute upon being as inconsequential as the Carpenters...You could hardly call him burnt out--Band on the Run was, in its rather vapid way, a masterful album. Muzak's finest hour. Of course he is about as committed to the notion of subject matter as Hanna-Barbera."

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

Lester Bangs was an overrated drug-addled Mark Prindle-wannabe. He wrote maybe three good articles.

― Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

BUT WHAT ARTICLES THEY WERE

― Edward III, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

and I think it's the inclusion of 'the white noise supremacists' that really rankles the ranks

-- nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:27

Why did it rankle?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

all blount's saying is that that article is what people have in mind when they accuse marcus of editing the bangs' collection with an agenda in mind.

― Edward III, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

i.e. if you expected the book to be a representative sample you might come away thinking he engaged politics overtly more often than he did?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:07 (6 years ago) Permalink

or that marcus is more interested in politics, even politics as banal as those in the white noise supremacist piece, than music?

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

sorta, probably closer is that the book is more reflective of marcus' interests than bangs'.

or what tim said.

― Edward III, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

it's not the same anthology of lester's writings that richard meltzer would have put together, let's say that.

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

not that meltzer's book would have been better! in fact, given a whore like the rest, there's perhaps reason to think it might have been worse.

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:19 (6 years ago) Permalink

With time I've realized I actually like Mainlines, Blood Feasts & Bad Taste better.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Paul McCartney makes lovely boutique tapes, resolute upon being as inconsequential as the Carpenters...You could hardly call him burnt out--Band on the Run was, in its rather vapid way, a masterful album. Muzak's finest hour. Of course he is about as committed to the notion of subject matter as Hanna-Barbera."

I don't think this is a pan.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

How can you tell?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

If I'm interpreting that piece right, Bangs does put McCartney on top of his list of the four Beatles in terms of descending credibility - meaning, I think, that he was the least offender at the time ('73-ish).

Whether it's an official pan or not, he makes particular criticisms. (Another is "If he was a little more gutsy, he might almost be Elton John." Lester must have written off Ram too easily.)

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

(Because you can't hear "Monkberry Moon Delight" and say that, I don't think.)

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:32 (6 years ago) Permalink

Or jeez, how about the vocal on "Let Me Roll It," which was on the then-current album?

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

lester bangs is great if only for getting me interested in the stooges, the godz, velvets, tangerine dream and van morrison at the same time when i was 15.

― ian, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

"if only?"

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

How can you tell?

You can't! The ambiguity's the most interesting element.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

Right, I was being jokey.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

lester bangs is great if only for getting me interested in the stooges, the godz, velvets, tangerine dream and van morrison at the same time when i was 15.

-- ian, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:40

Me too! plus Black Oak Arkansas and Sir Lord Baltimore

― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

shouldn't you guys be thanking GREIL MARCUS

― Edward III, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 19:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

"You're Welcome!"

― C. Grisso/McCain, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 19:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Whadda 'bout me? I WROTE the stuff!"

― C. Grisso/McCain, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 19:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

He got too depressingly moralistic and fogeyish in his Village Voice daze (too much booze, not enough speed), but EVERY article/review/profile/whatever he wrote for Creem had at least memorable (or unforgettable) turn of phrase or cracked simile or (yes) dope-addled pronouncement, or even the occasional bit of insight for those who value that sort of thing. Plus he was damned funny (always a good thing in my view), even if not as consistently hilarious as Meltzer or (especially) Rick Johnson. Basically I just plain liked how the guy's prose looked on the page, more than I can say for his hero Jack Kerouac. And finally, it was Bangs who (from beyond the grave!) turned me onto the Stooges/Velvets/Beefheart, not to mention Mingus and the rest of those cats, for which I thank him. Doesn't matter that he'd certainly hate 40% of the music on my personal shelves and hard drive, or how immature and self-destructive an asshole he probably was. I never let such trivialities concern me.

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 19:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

"Quiet you!"

(x-post)

― C. Grisso/McCain, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 19:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

racism's "banal," huh?

― Matos W.K., Tuesday, 17 April 2007 19:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

uh oh

― Edward III, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 19:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

Saint Cough Syrup

― Gorge, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

i don't know, the inclusion of the White Noise article in Caburetor Dung seems to me pretty necessary, if you're looking at the anthology as a portrait of Bangs -- which I think is how Marcus set it up. There's a lot of liberal guilt hand-wringing and self-flagellation in the article (which Bangs acknowledges) but it strikes me as an honest attempt to address some of the blatant and not-so-blatant racism that the punk scene contained. it's by no means a perfect article, but I don't think there was anyone else at the time actually attempting to deal with that stuff. I'm sure that within the NYC scene then, it caused a bunch of controversy, but it also may have caused some people to rethink their casual racism.

anyway, i definitely don't lionize Bangs, but I do think he's an often perceptive writer -- and most of all extremely funny, when he wanted to be.

― tylerw, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

I always thought it was cool that Marcus was such a huge supporter of Bangs since their writing styles and really, the whole essence of what they seemed to get out of rock music, seemed to be at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. Which isn't to say that Bangs didn't sometimes stumble onto the cerebral - he just surrounded it with a lot of hubris which was fine.

There was a phrase in baseball about how an unworthy successor to some superstar's throne "couldn't hold his jock." I often used to say that one day I would welcome being only so good as to hold Lester Bangs' typewriter and I know for a fact I ain't there and probably never will be, but it's a noble goal nonetheless.

I also think Bangs was the first Blogger as much of his output is so personalized it predates the Blogosphere that since came to redefine criticism.

Oh, and for the OP: Classic without a doubt.

― NYCNative, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 23:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

Matos, no, that's not what I was saying. More so that Bangs' ruminations about it in that article were maybe a little banal? I don't know - I'd have to read it again.

― Tim Ellison, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 00:15 (6 years ago) Permalink

I can see that, though as someone else just said, I think the writing itself was really terrific in that one. Maybe the conclusions were banal, but I think the ways he got to them were perceptive.

― Matos W.K., Wednesday, 18 April 2007 00:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

I dunno, I like the openended soulsearching of "the white noise supremacists." and the honesty. he doesn't just walk around pointing fingers, he pulls his own bigoted skeletons out of the closet for examination, too.

look, the guy wrote "of pop and pies and fun" at the age of 21. that alone blows my mind.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

21!

Part 1
Part 2

― Edward III, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

I hate myself. Same damn thing last year, this year, on and on till I’m an old fart if I live that long. Shit. Think I’ll rape my wank-fantasy cunt dog-style tonight.

Classic.

― ian, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 02:40 (6 years ago) Permalink

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