Citizen Kane, then...

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coffeeeeeeeee

Pennysong Hanle y, Friday, 28 September 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Isn't a 'rosebud' something you find in the underwear of people with poor hygiene?

dave q, Friday, 28 September 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Watched it last night and totally agree that it looks spectacular. Ran through Bogdanovich's commentary and that was quite good, just as informative as you could imagine. You can always have an intense drinking game with his Bogdanovich's commentaries; take a swig whenever he mentions John Ford, Alfred Hitchcock, or the fact that Orson once lived with him. There are a couple other frequently dropped themes, but I forget. Partaking in this while watching his Sopranos box interview will require major intestinal fortitude -- you'll be sloshed within ten minutes.

Andy, Friday, 28 September 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

That shiz was off the fookin hook dood I thought it wuz th3 b357 m0vi3 I've 3v3r seen.

Richard Dawson, Friday, 28 September 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

5 years pass...

I love the scene with the dancers in the news room, just so full of joie de vivre.

I wish Welles had done a musical, I suspect that could've been really something.

Billy Dods, Saturday, 9 June 2007 16:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's All True is the closest...

Dr Morbius, Saturday, 9 June 2007 16:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

For me, the best thing about Citizen Kane is its up front, unrepentant, hella wonderful theatricality. Welles took his larger-than-life-size main character and scaled everything else in the movie up to that size. This makes it all great fun to watch.

If it's about anything at all, it is just about fame and power, American-stylee. Everything it has to offer is so tightly bound to the surface of things, with the grandiosity, sordidness, arrogance, desperation and greed it puts on display, that the only way to 'get' the film is to watch it and let it speak for itself. And the superficiality of it makes for a puzzling mixture of intellectual shallowness and emotional depth.

As for Rosebud and all that bumpf, that's all just a silly red herring to keep the plot from disappearing altogether.

Aimless, Saturday, 9 June 2007 17:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

i agree with all of that!

Frogman Henry, Saturday, 9 June 2007 18:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Bernstein, am I a stuffed shirt?"

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 9 June 2007 20:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

Sonny Bupp dies:

http://www.cinematical.com/2007/11/09/last-surviving-cast-member-of-citizen-kane-dies/

"Ma, is Pop governor yet?"

Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

RIP. I'd been on a Welles kick for the last couple of days, oddly enough.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 18:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

RIP.

"Bernstein, am I a stuffed shirt?"
Bernstein's "Girl In The White Dress" is a key scene in the movie, no?

James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 18:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

Sparky Schulz' favorite movie.

Oilyrags, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 20:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

Annnnnd, I see that's been covered already.

Oilyrags, Tuesday, 13 November 2007 20:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

So of course Simpsons, Schulz, and about 800k other things have reffed this. I'm kind of afraid to see it, like if I do it will just be like watching something where I know entirely what will happen the whole time. And I have to admit I'm intimidated by its Ultimate Status. But I would like to see it so someone tell me I'm talking silly nonsense or something.

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've never seen a movie with or of Orson Welles.

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

this film has a lot more going on than most top-ten all-time classic snoozefests.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:29 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've never seen a movie with or of Orson Welles.

you should invite him over post-haste!

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

he was hot back then, Abbott.

horseshoe, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've never seen a movie with or of Orson Welles.

Start with The Muppet Movie and work your way up to Citizen Kane.

Eric H., Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

if one's never seen it, i wonder if they'd enjoy it more by starting with a less Serious and Important welles

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

er, what he said

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

I have "F for Fake" on my ntflx q; this is a docu, yes?

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

Whoa I had no idea he had youthful hotness. Prolly not young Brando hotness tho?

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

'citizen kane' is one of his more fun ones. if not the most fun!

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

i don't think F for Fake is really the place to start? Lady From Shanghai or The Third Man might be more like it?

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

not dissimilar from Brando hotness, actually!

horseshoe, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

just jump in with 'kane'.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes, Citizen Kane can be a bunch of fun if you're not spending all your time trying to focus and wrestle down "The Greatest Motion Picture Of All Time."

Naturally, I prefer The Magnificent Ambersons and Chimes at Midnight.

Eric H., Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm intimidated by its Ultimate Status

Don't be. It's a gallumphcious romp, not a frowning brow-wrinkler.

Aimless, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Kane's syntax is as far from insurmountable as The Wizard of Oz. It's not Resnais or anything.

Eric H., Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've never seen a movie with or of Orson Welles.

-- Abbott, Saturday, December 15, 2007 6:28 PM

dude go for Touch of Evil. it's one of my like all time top ten way gr8er than Kane

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

maybe more fun than Kane, but not as good an introduction because way less iconic?

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

This is all v reassuring, thx guys.

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

This is gonna turn into what my Spike Lee thread did, huh.

Abbott, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

Touch of Evil, also fantastic.

I'm pretty sure there are Welles films to avoid. I'm just not the one to suggest them.

Eric H., Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

maybe more fun than Kane, but not as good an introduction because way less iconic?

-- gabbneb, Saturday, December 15, 2007 6:52 PM

def less iconic, plus you get charlton heston in brownface which is great for lolz, but i really love the shit out of that movie.

possibly cause i was mad lifted the first time i saw it in the utsa library.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

Welles is sooo fat in Touch of Evil, it's even more funny than de-gringoed Heston.

"Didn't you bring me any donuts or sweet rolls?"

Eric H., Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

halfway into the movie i was entertaining the seriously baked suggestion that welles' casting of heston as a hispanic guy was some profound commentary on the social construction of race.

xp to self

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

i can't wait for morbs' disquisition on baked welles

gabbneb, Saturday, 15 December 2007 18:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

just watch citizen kane, it really is awesome, you will love it, the end.

s1ocki, Saturday, 15 December 2007 19:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

Abbott, you are talking silly nonsense or something.

Have you guys seen other films w/ Welles around that time? He wasn't THAT fat -- had to have been padded for Quinlan. Even the "I Love Lucy" he did wa sfrom maybe the year before, I think, and he was not mega-corpulent, just jowly.

The Ambersons Welles made might have been better than Kane, but the one that survives? No way.

(I think I like The Lady from Shanghai and Othello better than either.)

Dr Morbius, Saturday, 15 December 2007 22:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

abbott see them in this order:

1) kane (really entertaining; really, honest - there's a reason it's been parodied ad infinitum on the simpsons, and there's a reason pauline kael - much as i hate quoting her - called it "the most fun of any great movie ever")
2) f for fake (crazy fun, and gives a good sense of welles's sense of humor)
3) touch of evil (crazy, baroque)
4) chimes at midnight/falstaff (best movie ever)
5) macbeth (funniest shakespeare ever - othello is better objectively but i still prefer this one)

ambersons is wonderful but a very frustrating watch. it's still better than almost any movie ever even in its current form but maybe hold off on that til you see these.

J.D., Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

this film has a lot more going on than most top-ten all-time classic snoozefests.

OTM, i think kane is a way deeper film than, say, the bicycle thief or potemkin or city lights or the seventh seal or the godfather, not to mention funner to watch (tho i like all those).

J.D., Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

I saw CK for the first time just a few years ago, with all the attendant baggage, and it rocked me.

wanko ergo sum, Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

he was hot back then, Abbott.

OTM! the picture james naremore uses on the cover of "the magic world of orson welles" is quite fetching

JD's list is pretty solid except 1) falstaff/CoM is very hard to find (tho it rules), and 2) i'm not crazy about his othello

impudent harlot, Saturday, 15 December 2007 23:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

also, the third man, for some more great welles/joseph cotten fun, even tho it ain't a welles film as such

kingfish, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

Why do I feel that

the bicycle thief or potemkin or city lights or the seventh seal or the godfather

weren't the "top-ten all-time classic snoozefests" enrique was referring to?

Eric H., Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

funny, that's exactly what i thought he had in mind.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Maybe Potemkin, but I figured he was talking about Bresson and Antonioni and Godard.

Eric H., Sunday, 16 December 2007 00:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

f for fake is awesome

Unity Tour 2011: 311 and Sublime with Rome (latebloomer), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

my favorite part in f for fake is when he's holding court at the restaurant, this roaring mountain laughing and telling lies and knocking over drinks.

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

my favorite part in f for fake of ILE is when he's holding court at the restaurant, this roaring mountain laughing and telling lies and knocking over drinks.

ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

you're gonna need to eat more.

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

This thread needs

stars on 45 my destination (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

Britain, the 51sb State (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

*rouses from alcoholic coma* AAAAAHHHHHHH the....french champagne.....

anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

-xpost-

LOL, those voiceover tapes are brilliant:

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

Sorry, your version is better!

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

Citizen Kane is great and all, but its inclusion in your list of all time greatest movies isn't going to attract my attention.

scissorlocks and the three bears (Eric H.), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

And, let's face it, if you can't get my attention in list form, you ain't getting my attention.

scissorlocks and the three bears (Eric H.), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

" he duzzn do anythin'?"

Britain, the 51sb State (darraghmac), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

who are you talking to, Eric

anime hitler, the futanari führer (Princess TamTam), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

Royal "your."

scissorlocks and the three bears (Eric H.), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

lists are awful

Unity Tour 2011: 311 and Sublime with Rome (latebloomer), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

If only less of them featured Citizen Kane.

scissorlocks and the three bears (Eric H.), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

Touch of Evil drags more than CK does (the Heston-Weaver stuff leaves me cold).

― ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, May 17, 2011 5:05 PM (49 minutes ago)


ditto for me

stars on 45 my destination (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

Citizen Kane is great and all, but its inclusion in your list of all time greatest movies isn't going to attract my attention.

I guess you omit Erotica from your list of all time great albums.

ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

Not desperately seeking attention from ILM'ers.

scissorlocks and the three bears (Eric H.), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 21:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

desperately seeking susan from ilm'ers

Unity Tour 2011: 311 and Sublime with Rome (latebloomer), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 22:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

desperately steening HOOS'n

stars on 45 my destination (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 17 May 2011 22:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

I wonder what Welles thread will actually feature discussion of CK

the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 00:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

btw the Jed Leland scenes in this make me nostalgic for an age when theatre reviews were called "notices."

the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 00:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

also, was it Kael who wrote that Sloane's Bernstein was thought to be a vocal impression of Bernard Herrmann? I've always delighted in imagining Sloane's accent when reading Herrmann's quote to Brian De Palma when scoring Sisters: "YAW NOT HITCHCOCK!"

the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 00:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

What are your favorite unremarked-on scenes? Mine: "Certainly we're speaking, Jedediah. You're fired."

ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 01:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

^CFK at his queeniest

I like it when old Leland refers to Xanadu as "Sloppy Joe's" (fave Hemingway bar in Key West)

the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 01:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

I love when Leland says "crimitism" instead of "criticism." Apparently, it was shot at the end of a loooooong day (or days) and Cotten was delirious with sleep deprivation. Welles just smiles at him.

Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 18 May 2011 01:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

Other movies that are fast moving and fun as all hell.

The Magnificent Ambersons

this is a joke, right?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 02:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think he's got it confused with "Meet the Fockers"

Mark G, Wednesday, 18 May 2011 08:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

f for fake kinda bogs down towards the end. the picasso thing.

I've the same problem with F For Fake that I do with Zelig: the joke gets tired after twenty minutes.

i can't see how either of these hold water; i don't see any of the later sections as offering diminished returns, because they're different; the section on the cathedral is one of the most lyrical in cinema, to me, and the picasso section is playful and graceful in an entirely different way from the start of the film's more mad-cap, technological fun. sure f for fake is uneven, in that it veers, but i don't think it's that it tries one thing and then flags.

mailbox of snakes (schlump), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 10:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

'f for fake' is great, but getting criterion treatment kinda overexposed it for a while. i enjoy it most because it really lets welles play the showman, which none of his other movies really did. it's a wonderfully unique film -- i can't think of anything else remotely like it. i'd happily shell out for a criterion that consisted of nothing but welles interviews, come to think of it.

the most remarkable thing about welles, for me, is that all of his movies are so different in style, tone, everything. it's almost impossible to believe the same guy made 'ambersons' AND 'f for fake' AND 'the trial.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 18 May 2011 12:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

"you see, my mother died a long time ago, and her things were put in storage out west--there wasn't any other place to put them--i thought i'd send for them now, and tonight i was going to take a look at them. you know, a sort of sentimental journey. i run a couple of newspapers; what do you do?"

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 02:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

ever notice the dude on the Smart Puffs bag looks exactly like Peter Bogdanovich?

David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 02:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

missing the cravat, though

David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 03:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

lol!

\(^o\) (/o^)/ (ENBB), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 03:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

on the new release:

For the new Blu-ray, Ned Price and his team at Warner Brothers Motion Picture Imagery scanned three different copies (or "film elements"): the MoMA print; a 35 mm fine-grain master that was found several years ago at a film lab in Brussels; and another 35 mm fine-grain master, discovered much more recently at a European film archive. (For a purely technical caveat, click here.)

"The three film elements had different strengths and weaknesses," Price explained. "For instance, one of them had less flicker in one reel but coarser grain in another reel. So we put together the best bits and pieces of all three." (Even so, Price and his team had to clean up, frame by frame, a lot of dirt and misalignments, especially in all those opticals and dissolves. The restoration project took over a year to complete.)

http://www.slate.com/id/2303638/pagenum/all/

incredibly middlebrow (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 September 2011 20:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

Had never seen this. Now I have. Wow!

Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 10:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

:D

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 11:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's great no matter how much people want to rearrange the canonical furniture.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 13:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Citizen Kane = Magnificent Ambersons = Chimes at Midnight = F for Fake = Touch of Evil

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

You'd need a big room for all that furniture.

jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

esp if Orson is living there

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Saw this at MoMA tonight, forgot how funny Susan's vocal coach is.

also you *do* see William Alland (the reporter)'s face out of silhouette on a big screen.

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 2 June 2013 05:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

Oh, this isn't original point, but the movie announces its theme:

"It's the greatest curse that's ever been inflicted on the human race: memory."

ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 2 June 2013 05:22 (1 year ago) Permalink


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