Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

Eagle has just dismissed John Humphreys reading out her voting record on Iraq, Chilcot, ID cards, welfare, etc as "a Corbynista meme".

people are not throwing enough bricks at these cretins

that's some Guy Goma shit.

now there's the first plausible unifying candidate I've seen suggested. Other people bring me problems, Matt DC brings me solutions.

I heard somebody refer to that announcement speech as powerful this morning too. Not sure fi anybody's seen more of it than i heard live at the time. I think possibly a bit more fo it was shown on BBC News yesterday evening. So not sure what other people's impressions of things are. Like if it was a more peripheral thing in a busy schedule for a punter what would they come away with?
Is the edited version the accepted version?

Still wondering if anybody who didn't hear Boris's speech the other day heard anything of him waffling about buses, which seemed a weird thing to do in a significant speech. & there are probably other recent examples of things that you only heard at the time they were said live and weren't otherwise reported.
Or were otherwise reframed

its time for this guy to leave. ive supported him, i *love* the man, and what he stands for, i think he is brilliant as someone to have in the labour party, to critique the status quo in society and hold tories to account, but this man is not a leader, and even if he is, he cant lead his own MPs. which is yknow, kinda what you want from a political party! he has the support of members, but perhaps he is only good for a protest vote, a person to get behind to say what you do not want, but not necessarily someone who knows what he does want, or how to get it, or what it would entail.

god knows if angela eagle is any good, but corbyn might be the best we have right now, but if we have a snap election, is he really going to get labour into power? what would that even look like right now? (in fairness, not sure what a new tory govt post brexit would look like either).

*and corbyn might be the best we have right now

Always useful to have someone spout the popular narrative on ILX

I haven't lived in Wallasey since '93, so she was only my MP for about a year. There was a link on one of the other threads regarding her path to selection, how Frank Field was involved in undermining the hard-left Labour candidate Lol Duffy in '87 (I remember the local freesheet going to town on the "Marxist"), who lost to Lynda Chalker by <300 votes, and was prevented from standing again (leading to the suspension of the Wallasey CLP, who supported him overwhelmingly) in '92. Eagle was effectively imposed on the constituency. I have no idea of how she is regarded locally, single airborne brick aside.

yeah i know its lame, im just repeating the usual spiel, and ive resisted it so far, after seeing the glee of anti corybyn so called labour supporters on social media, but im just starting to worry what will happen if we have an election. is everyone in this thread confident about a) a labour win b) corbyn leading the party after that point?

Eagle won't win power either. They've had nine months to plot this and the failure of organisation is genuinely astonishing even for this bunch of morons. If there was some guiding intelligence behind it you could imagine putting up Eagle as the stalking horse, and subsequently requiring a 'stop Eagle' candidate in addition to a 'stop Corbyn' one when she proves hopelessly incapable, might be engineered to induce the NEC to keep Corbyn off the ballot and have a proper contest but it's virtually inconceivable they are organised enough to plan something like that.

The thread title is a specific choice, but by all means, let the imagination run wild - who would you be confident about a labour win under?

I'll note you've not answered me asking about where you get "what about when there is an opportunity to perhaps defeat them? i dont imagine corbyn would know what to do, or be happy in that position. supporting corbyn for that reason i think is only good for the short term."

(I ask because there's an obvious subtext, which I don't know if you're implying or I'm inferring, of "can we trust him to kiss Murdoch's ring?")

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-gilbert/facing-facts-progressive-strategy-for-2020

this should be compulsory reading

If I already read it on the main thread can I get a note?

i take it you completely disagree with the argument, or else why wank on about "winning"?

Is that to me, NV? I don't believe I have - I'm very much in the "A victory by any means wouldn't be worth it"

i apologise for misreading you then Andrew, i need to turn down my class paranoia at this stage in the game

(also as an Irishman the phrase "how about a nice cup of tea and a coalition?" is never far from my lips)

If there is a snap election I'd be very surprised if Labour win, but I genuinely think there is a much higher chance of doing so under Corbyn than Eagle cos at least it's proven that a significant proportion of the electorate actually like him. And if they lose, I'd much rather the Corbynistas in opposition than the Blairites. So a no brainer really.

Though whether an election loss under Jezza would lead to the hard left retaining any kind of influence on the party is questionable, I guess. Either way, we don't have much to lose so we may as well go with our principles at this point.

ty for that link NV, i missed it on the other thread

yes that gilbert article is great

The thousands of #keepcorbyn comments on Eagle's facebook page!

photos of the window of angela eagle's office boarded up with vote remain placards :*(

how Frank Field was involved in undermining the hard-left Labour candidate Lol Duffy in '87 (I remember the local freesheet going to town on the "Marxist")

Marxist was accurate in Duffy's case though, he was a member/"supporter" of the trot group that became Alliance for Workers' Liberty (who seem to have been the only far-left party to have supported a Remain vote this year afaict)

17-15 win for the second vote on whether Corbyn should be on the ballot to be secret.

It's being taken as a strong indication they'll keep him off it.

Then it will look like an enormous stitch-up, and whoever gets in will face an immediate and ongoing crisis of legitimacy.

If they keep Corbyn off the ballot expect everyone to bundle in and Angela Eagle to be nowhere in the final voting.

and the number of votes to plummet

if they do try to keep him off the ballot then I can only imagine it will be a disaster, even from the pov of the Labour right. the pressure to reverse the decision will be immense, Corbyn's stand against the corrupt establishment will become the one and only issue of the whole leadership election campaign, and any discussion of his failings as leader will be off the agenda. I can't see any way that this would work out well for his opponents - I guess they hope they can tough it out and Corbyn's supporters will just leave the party in frustration?

they can't keep him off the ballot, he'll just have to be 51'ed on to it like everyone else. same difference really but

to think of all the unheeded warnings that scottish labours' intimate intwinement in the better together campaign could alienate their voters for good

It's nice that the Labour Party are finally working together to save Britain from a grave and terrible threat

Who would have guessed the threat would be a guy who cares about justice and welfare for poor people but isn't that great at working the media! I never would have, lucky I'm not an MP!! :)

I mean I can imagine a situation where they force Corbyn to get the noms and enough no-confidence PLP voters are self-aware enough to realise what a fuckup it'd be to keep him out, so they nominate him anyway. It'd only need 11 out of 140ish right?

172 in fact

he needs 51 nominations from either Lab MPs or MEPs, and afaict there are only about a dozen or so who actually want him to be leader. but yes, I think that he could well end up getting enough nominations anyway due to the pressure on MPs from their local parties, fear of splitting the party and recognition that a leader elected without Corbyn on the ballot would be seen as lacking legitimacy.

A few commenters here in need of a bracing fiery death

https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/752902183012753408

i'm not too sure that there's any point expecting honour or basic political intelligence from these fuckers tbh

real somewhere that the number of nominations needed for a leadership contest where there is no incumbent is only 15% of the PLP and MEPs, rather than the 20% needed when the election is a challenge against an incumbent leader, so theoretically Corbyn could stand down as leader and then would need fewer nominations. which seems farcical, but is in keeping with the general slapstick nature of the last few weeks

A few commenters here in need of a bracing fiery death

Starting with all these cunts going on about "new, kinder politics" all the fucking time

Is there any possibility that Eagle is targeting herself as some kind of machiavellian move that seems a little too obvious.
Playing the victim does seem one tactic, but does is it one electable?

doubt it, there's enough understandably enraged people, ne'er-do-wells and idiots to go around

xp top tip - when a female public figure is claiming harassment, the burden of proof is really really far on the side of those claiming she's making it up.

omg

https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/752915337939718144

young passionate supporter of neolib economics

Wonder if the rallies Angela has will bring the same numbers in as Jeremy's short notice meetings did?

ppl suggesting that the Corbyn lookalike thing is a set up, I was hoping that it was just some hapless bearded gentleman who happened to walk past and had no idea was going on

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnLkyboWAAAAtfb.jpg

The Jamie Vardy lookalike is on the phone now giving him tips.

The Vardy lookalike has been getting abuse since Norwexit

Corbyn on the ballot!

poor Angela Eagle

a bunch of otherwise sensible leftist friends of mine talk a lot about conspiracies where I would be reluctant to use that word but there's no reason they're not broadly correct