Jeremy Corbyn vs Angela Eagle

New Labour - did a lot of good work for charidee, didn't like to talk about it

In the grand scheme of things, who's to say that 272 dead Iraqis per SureStart centre opened wasn't a ratio worth paying? History will judge but it's a bit early now.

Eagle's launch doesn't seem to have contained much in the way of policy direction.

This vote was a message from millions in our country who felt no one had listened to them for a very long time. For many, it was a howl of pain.

Now.. "How on earth do we bring hope to parts of our country that feel they have been neglected for years?”

“How do we protect jobs, investment and living standards?”

“How do we remain an open tolerant society?”

“And will we stay a United Kingdom?”

idk but setting out some kind of vision wouldn't go amiss.

as a former SureStart employee i would go with "not worth it"

“How do we protect jobs, investment and living standards?”

There's an awful lot of people looking for a bit more than "protection" for their shitty low-paid jobs

“How do we remain an open tolerant society?”

lol you were parachuted into your constituency and you worked with Blair and Straw

“And will we stay a United Kingdom?”

nobody sane gives a fuck about this btw

Can it really be less than a year ago that she was complaining Osborne brought the National Living Wage in too quickly?

Eagle asked why she can beat May, simply replies: "Because she's a Tory".

Seems legit.

Does Tory lite beat Tory.
Sounds like a Taste test, or a Harry Hill skit.

If the opposition to Corbyn were putting up anyone at all inspiring or with any apparent integrity even, you know, a bit ballsy and confident I'd think about it. But they're not so obvioulsy I'm going to vote for Corbyn.

Eagle asked why she can beat May, simply replies: "Because she's a Tory".

This phrase should be included in style guide books to demonstrate the importance of quotation marks.

the "Because she's a Tory" thing seems particularly unfortunate given that Eagle's whole campaign seems to boil down to "I can win and Jeremy can't" (she repeatedly refused to answer questions about policy differences between herself and Corbyn during her Peston interview, saying that it's not about policy but "leadership"), if she can't give a non-embarrassing answer to the question "how can you defeat May" then what's the point?

THis leadership that she's shown and Jeremy so clearly can't deliver. Where has she shown it?

Did anybody show the full video of her announcement. Is more of it sneaking out now?
Or was the Conservative announcement so much more important. I guess it's a lot more immediate.
BUt God would love it if nothing really could happen before the break.
Other tahn Eagle getting laughed at a lot or something.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Eagle has just dismissed John Humphreys reading out her voting record on Iraq, Chilcot, ID cards, welfare, etc as "a Corbynista meme".

Politics aside, idk how anyone can claim she has the media skills Corbyn is missing.

That much was absolutely confirmed by her clomping about in clown shoes yesterday.

She is actively worse than Liz Kendall, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper etc. John Humphrys wasn't even playing hardball with her and it was just this car crash interview.

She has no response to the Iraq issue and she should really have worked one out by now.

The number of people making the same joke re 'Eagle attacks child' is as big a reason to reject her as any.

Haven't even been able to bear to watch her. It's so obvious she's being used by the progress mob and is gonna be dumped like an old mattress very soon.

I assume this is partially motivated by a desire to spend as little time in her constituency as possible. I grew up in Wallasey. I get it.

talking of which:

https://twitter.com/dats/status/752800373568659456

I assume this is partially motivated by a desire to spend as little time in her constituency as possible. I grew up in Wallasey. I get it.

― Michael Jones, Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:48 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Is this new for her, has she been hands on there?
Just wondering how good she is for anything. I should pay more attention to the political thing but am living abroad anyway.
& really not getting a very good impression of her from the last couple of weeks. Has she got a lot of support.
Still not sure about structure fo coup, or what was said to the people involved. Get rid of the trot and we'll put this person in charge. & that was the motivation. Or just get rid of the trot and we'll put this placeholder there and the Tories will fund us a bit more to be the overly similar opposition perpetually?

I'm mesmerised by the moment she realises there's no one left at her campaign launch to take questions, just the panic in her eyes, that's some Guy Goma shit.

Eagle has just dismissed John Humphreys reading out her voting record on Iraq, Chilcot, ID cards, welfare, etc as "a Corbynista meme".

people are not throwing enough bricks at these cretins

that's some Guy Goma shit.

now there's the first plausible unifying candidate I've seen suggested. Other people bring me problems, Matt DC brings me solutions.

I heard somebody refer to that announcement speech as powerful this morning too. Not sure fi anybody's seen more of it than i heard live at the time. I think possibly a bit more fo it was shown on BBC News yesterday evening. So not sure what other people's impressions of things are. Like if it was a more peripheral thing in a busy schedule for a punter what would they come away with?
Is the edited version the accepted version?

Still wondering if anybody who didn't hear Boris's speech the other day heard anything of him waffling about buses, which seemed a weird thing to do in a significant speech. & there are probably other recent examples of things that you only heard at the time they were said live and weren't otherwise reported.
Or were otherwise reframed

its time for this guy to leave. ive supported him, i *love* the man, and what he stands for, i think he is brilliant as someone to have in the labour party, to critique the status quo in society and hold tories to account, but this man is not a leader, and even if he is, he cant lead his own MPs. which is yknow, kinda what you want from a political party! he has the support of members, but perhaps he is only good for a protest vote, a person to get behind to say what you do not want, but not necessarily someone who knows what he does want, or how to get it, or what it would entail.

god knows if angela eagle is any good, but corbyn might be the best we have right now, but if we have a snap election, is he really going to get labour into power? what would that even look like right now? (in fairness, not sure what a new tory govt post brexit would look like either).

*and corbyn might be the best we have right now

Always useful to have someone spout the popular narrative on ILX

I haven't lived in Wallasey since '93, so she was only my MP for about a year. There was a link on one of the other threads regarding her path to selection, how Frank Field was involved in undermining the hard-left Labour candidate Lol Duffy in '87 (I remember the local freesheet going to town on the "Marxist"), who lost to Lynda Chalker by <300 votes, and was prevented from standing again (leading to the suspension of the Wallasey CLP, who supported him overwhelmingly) in '92. Eagle was effectively imposed on the constituency. I have no idea of how she is regarded locally, single airborne brick aside.

yeah i know its lame, im just repeating the usual spiel, and ive resisted it so far, after seeing the glee of anti corybyn so called labour supporters on social media, but im just starting to worry what will happen if we have an election. is everyone in this thread confident about a) a labour win b) corbyn leading the party after that point?

Eagle won't win power either. They've had nine months to plot this and the failure of organisation is genuinely astonishing even for this bunch of morons. If there was some guiding intelligence behind it you could imagine putting up Eagle as the stalking horse, and subsequently requiring a 'stop Eagle' candidate in addition to a 'stop Corbyn' one when she proves hopelessly incapable, might be engineered to induce the NEC to keep Corbyn off the ballot and have a proper contest but it's virtually inconceivable they are organised enough to plan something like that.

The thread title is a specific choice, but by all means, let the imagination run wild - who would you be confident about a labour win under?

I'll note you've not answered me asking about where you get "what about when there is an opportunity to perhaps defeat them? i dont imagine corbyn would know what to do, or be happy in that position. supporting corbyn for that reason i think is only good for the short term."

(I ask because there's an obvious subtext, which I don't know if you're implying or I'm inferring, of "can we trust him to kiss Murdoch's ring?")

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-gilbert/facing-facts-progressive-strategy-for-2020

this should be compulsory reading

If I already read it on the main thread can I get a note?

i take it you completely disagree with the argument, or else why wank on about "winning"?

Is that to me, NV? I don't believe I have - I'm very much in the "A victory by any means wouldn't be worth it"

i apologise for misreading you then Andrew, i need to turn down my class paranoia at this stage in the game

(also as an Irishman the phrase "how about a nice cup of tea and a coalition?" is never far from my lips)

If there is a snap election I'd be very surprised if Labour win, but I genuinely think there is a much higher chance of doing so under Corbyn than Eagle cos at least it's proven that a significant proportion of the electorate actually like him. And if they lose, I'd much rather the Corbynistas in opposition than the Blairites. So a no brainer really.

Though whether an election loss under Jezza would lead to the hard left retaining any kind of influence on the party is questionable, I guess. Either way, we don't have much to lose so we may as well go with our principles at this point.

ty for that link NV, i missed it on the other thread

yes that gilbert article is great

The thousands of #keepcorbyn comments on Eagle's facebook page!

photos of the window of angela eagle's office boarded up with vote remain placards :*(

how Frank Field was involved in undermining the hard-left Labour candidate Lol Duffy in '87 (I remember the local freesheet going to town on the "Marxist")

Marxist was accurate in Duffy's case though, he was a member/"supporter" of the trot group that became Alliance for Workers' Liberty (who seem to have been the only far-left party to have supported a Remain vote this year afaict)

17-15 win for the second vote on whether Corbyn should be on the ballot to be secret.

It's being taken as a strong indication they'll keep him off it.

Then it will look like an enormous stitch-up, and whoever gets in will face an immediate and ongoing crisis of legitimacy.

If they keep Corbyn off the ballot expect everyone to bundle in and Angela Eagle to be nowhere in the final voting.

and the number of votes to plummet

if they do try to keep him off the ballot then I can only imagine it will be a disaster, even from the pov of the Labour right. the pressure to reverse the decision will be immense, Corbyn's stand against the corrupt establishment will become the one and only issue of the whole leadership election campaign, and any discussion of his failings as leader will be off the agenda. I can't see any way that this would work out well for his opponents - I guess they hope they can tough it out and Corbyn's supporters will just leave the party in frustration?

they can't keep him off the ballot, he'll just have to be 51'ed on to it like everyone else. same difference really but

to think of all the unheeded warnings that scottish labours' intimate intwinement in the better together campaign could alienate their voters for good

That's some speech

I wonder how many present who were clapping the speech were cowardly abstainers who aided and abetted the tories in bringing in the welfare bill.

Andy Burnham is beside her in the photo. I like him. I like the way that throughout the Corbyn era, he has knuckled down and got on with working for Corbyn, whether he entirely agrees with him or not, pausing only occasionally to make quite polite appeals for other people to do the same.

Jeremy Corbyn is doing well !

he needs to do better

http://www.primaryteaching.co.uk/prodimg/H69_1_Zoom.jpg

lol fair

best be safe and order more of the ones with the red star

His own work is good but he distracts others.

Untapped potential from the rosy-cheeked whippersnapper.

The net tightens around Stevolende

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/19/angela-eagle-abusive-homophobic-messages-labour-members

Can you stop using my name please, I find you creepy enough already.

Had hoped we'd seen the last of Eagle after that manipulative shite she pulled earlier this year. Had hoped people would have wised up to her after that. Obviously some people didn't.

...

in other news, Mark Sandell has been expelled from Labour along with 15 other members of Brighton and Hove CLP. the CLP is going to be split in 3:

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2016/10/19/suspended-labour-official-expelled-as-brighton-and-hove-party-faces-break-up/

Can you stop using my name please, I find you creepy enough already.

Had hoped we'd seen the last of Eagle after that manipulative shite she pulled earlier this year. Had hoped people would have wised up to her after that. Obviously some people didn't.

― Stevolende, Wednesday, October 19, 2016 9:24 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sweep sweep

Stevo you do realise that a guy has actually admitted to sending her a death threat, right?

Corbyn more Baldrick than May, sez Baldrick

@Tony_Robinson
To those tweeting me about 'MSM', Corbyn faces no more hostile media than every Lab leader in history. He's just inept at dealing with it

for a bloke who presents history programmes that's one v short memory right there

liquidate all these fucking awful New Labour luvvies imo

is complaining about the "MSM" a thing now?

always and #4evah

a bunch of otherwise sensible leftist friends of mine talk a lot about conspiracies where I would be reluctant to use that word but there's no reason they're not broadly correct