Rolling Afrobeats / Afropop 2016

So at that level we have maybe two artists thinking they have a chance to be "that african guy" american artists call when they want a hook, and a whole range of artists that aren't even trying to look in that direction.

this seems like a pretty big leap

Well yeah, perhaps. How would you put it then?

Someone like Olamide is obviously not looking to cross over into the western markets yet, but he's still affected by the gravitational pull that started with Ojuelegba and deepened with Good Time. And what Olamide does still seems to dictate what's going on on the «ground level» of Nigerian music. As for Tiwa Savage, I'm curious about how they're going to try to present her outside of Africa if that's indeed what the Roc Nation signing means.

i dont think ojuelegba or good time were written with western markets in mind

They weren't. But the crossover success of Ojuelegba clearly tilted the market in favor of afrobeat-flavoured hits. Hence Good Time and now Konkobility.

Wizkid didn't pay Tyga to jump on Ojuelegba, he wanted him on Show Me The Money. That didn't really work and Ojuelegba became the biggest song on the album - even outside Africa. So the dynamic changed.

Ojuelegba is afrobeat? Good Time follows from Ojuelegba? You make some good points, but this: no.

Let me just quote this piece on Ojuelegba from Allafrica.com (july 2015) for you:

"In the lyrics, Wizkid recounts the episodes of his painstaking effort at promoting his music, from one studio to another, with different producers in that axis. He expresses his appreciation for his mother’s support through the years in this feel-good song.
Technically, the song has a cross-over appeal with the easy flowing Afrobeat rhythm; one that could make put it on replay while driving through traffic with your grandparents and young cousins in the backseats. There’s no Fela fan who would not be reminded of “Confusion Break Bone” when Wizkid’s chants his “Ojuelegba” chorus over an Afrobeat instrumental.

While Fela’s reference to Ojuelegba was to expose social-economic depravity, Wizkid’s intervention is in congruence with the overall theme of his album, dedicated to his undying passion to succeed in music. Unlike Fela, Wizkid gives room for praising God for his mileage in music in most of his tracks including “Jaiye Jaiye” which was highly influenced by the legendary musician’s Afrobeat.
In it, he sings, “Are you feeling good tonight?/This thing got me thanking God for life/ I can’t explain..”. “Ojuelegba” has a sample of electronic instrumental from Dr Dre’s collaborative track with Snoop Doggy Dogg titled, “Nothing But A ‘G’ Thang” from the master producer’s debut solo album, “The Chronic”, which was released in 1992, two years after Wizkid was born."

http://allafrica.com/stories/201507200223.html

ojuelgba blew up internationally because the biggest rapper in the world hopped on it, not bc of some inherent quality of its sound

you know what was always interesting to me was how nothin but a g thing was actually sampled on this record before ojuelegba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhGhs8S4UZw

I know. That song is really slept on. And OF COURSE it blew up because Drake jumped on it. My argument is more along the lines of a) why did Drake jump on that song and not another one, and b) what could you emulate about Ojuelegba given that most people won't get Drake to jump on their song.

Would be interested in hearing how breastcrawl would classify Ojuelegba musically though. It does strike me as different from other Wizkid / Legendury Beatz collabos.

I like the new Legendury Beatz single btw, even if it probably would be better with the real Wizkid instead of this understudy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpdQOMWWGw

To my ears, at least, even something like Cobham Asuquo's Boosit seems to lean ever so slightly towards afrobeat in a way that it maybe wouldn't have done just a year ago. There's a lot of R&B in there as well, of course - i'm speaking about vibe here, mostly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMBM-MbFj-c

The afrobeat component is there in "Ojuelegba", that was a gross oversight on my part - I guess it's because don't have the Fela Kuti engrained in me. But it's just that, a component. Is that gentle beat really out of the afrobeat book? The strings and the g-funk synth certainly aren't. It definitely has an old skool vibe, but I'd say in a not specific way. It's very much its own thing. In fact, I wouldn't know of any other track in this style. Certainly not recent afrobeat-influenced songs like Burna's "Soke" and Moe Logo's "Penkele" that wear their Felaisms on their sleeve. Did they come out with those tracks because of "Ojuelegba"? Maybe, but I'm not convinced. There were popular Fela tributes before it too, like LNC's "Ko Sere" and Oritse Femi's "Double Wahala", and of course the biggest of them all in recent memory, Wizkid's own "Jaiye Jaiye", also mentioned in the article you linked to. As for "Good Time", I see it primarily as Coublon further honing his sound. The horns (notably absent from "Ojuelegba"!), were already introduced in Tekno's "Duro", for instance, and then he went full-on with "Good Time". Influenced by "Ojuelegba"? Again, who knows. But then why hasn't anybody tried to recreate/copy the actual way "Ojuelegba" sounds, if they feel that's the way to go? Or have they and did I miss something?

(Perhaps Bular's gorgeous "Shamajo", produced by Blaq Jerzee, that I posted back in March? But no, the focus is very much on the horns again - and besides, it wasn't a hit.)

Meanwhile, Kiss Daniel's buddy Sugarboy has just released the followup to "Hola Hola", called "Double".

https://soundcloud.com/gworldwideent/sugarboy-double

Hey, I've recently come across a few "Afro Trap" compilations. They look potentially dubious, and mostly consist of songs by artists about which I can't find much information. Anybody know anything about them?

https://open.spotify.com/user/glennpmcdonald/playlist/25juWkTqXuMm0HdiROhMbt

Afro Trap, Afro Pop & Afrobeat Hits, Vol. 1 (Remastered) [ CD Run Presents ]
Afro Trap [ Sushiraw ]
Afro Trap X Kizomba [ Sushiraw ]
Afro Trap Infinity [ Sushiraw ]
Afro Trap Session [ Sushiraw ]
Afro Pop & Trap (African Rythm & Beat) [ Melynga ]

I really like the stuff on them, and want to find more of it! Whatever it is.

The afrobeat component is there in "Ojuelegba", that was a gross oversight on my part - I guess it's because don't have the Fela Kuti engrained in me. But it's just that, a component. Is that gentle beat really out of the afrobeat book? The strings and the g-funk synth certainly aren't. It definitely has an old skool vibe, but I'd say in a not specific way. It's very much its own thing. In fact, I wouldn't know of any other track in this style. Certainly not recent afrobeat-influenced songs like Burna's "Soke" and Moe Logo's "Penkele" that wear their Felaisms on their sleeve. Did they come out with those tracks because of "Ojuelegba"? Maybe, but I'm not convinced. There were popular Fela tributes before it too, like LNC's "Ko Sere" and Oritse Femi's "Double Wahala", and of course the biggest of them all in recent memory, Wizkid's own "Jaiye Jaiye", also mentioned in the article you linked to. As for "Good Time", I see it primarily as Coublon further honing his sound. The horns (notably absent from "Ojuelegba"!), were already introduced in Tekno's "Duro", for instance, and then he went full-on with "Good Time". Influenced by "Ojuelegba"? Again, who knows. But then why hasn't anybody tried to recreate/copy the actual way "Ojuelegba" sounds, if they feel that's the way to go? Or have they and did I miss something?

(Perhaps Bular's gorgeous "Shamajo", produced by Blaq Jerzee, that I posted back in March? But no, the focus is very much on the horns again - and besides, it wasn't a hit.)

― breastcrawl, Wednesday, June 15, 2016 8:15 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

When I talk about "influence" I mean it in the subtlest way you can imagine. The afrobeat influence on Good Time and Konkobility strikes me as way closer to the afrobeat component of Ojuelegba than that of the full blown Jaiye Jaiye, for instance - and mainly because of the gentleness. That gentleness suggests a new, more subtle approach that I think maybe, perhaps goes back to the success of Ojuelegba more than anything else: suddenly an understated song/beat became the biggest of them all. Maybe there's even a trace of the Ojuelegba beat's gentleness in the loose groove of Who You Epp? I don't know but it seems at the very least possible that the massive success of an atypical song like Ojuelegba - which I believe only sort of became a single after most fans and critics singled it out as Ayo's saving grace: it doesn't even have its own single cover in iTunes - impacted the sonics of nigerian afropop in ways that will probably become more evident to us as time goes on.

As in "the difference between Show You The Money/Fans Mi and Who You Epp is effectively Ojuelegba. This is all speculative, but hey, let's speculate.

So it's not merely a question of direct influence - as in "horns" - but a question about which songs/styles are pushed or decided on as singles

So, my two cents as a complete outsider and a lurker in these threads for a few years now. I can sort of hear where the appeal of stuff like Dorobucci and Story For the Gods comes from since they remind me of some Balkan hits I'd have a hard time explaining to "foreigners". But yeah, I don't really feel it. I don't like Kiss Daniel either. He sounds like a crossover version of this stuff and just feels generic. On the other hand, I LOVE shit like Tchelete and Soweto Baby. Could someone describe what makes those distinctive? They are obviously more "western" but I prefer them to any r'n'b or pop from the last few years.

They're driven by south african pop-house rhythms as opposed to traditional highlife-infused nigerian rhythms, would be the short answer. I'd be interested in hearing what you thought about stuff like Olamide and Lil Kesh though?

Thanks! That makes sense. But what south african pop-house rhythms? How long is that history? Any recommendations? Olamide fits the highlife current, which I respect but don't enjoy fully. I'd probably like Lil Kesh more if I understood any of the slang.

as an outsider to the Nigerian/ghanian scene, my biggest question is always what is the influence of non-Fela Afrobeat (and other west-African music Juju, etc) on the modern stuff? I feel like everyone just talks about the Fela influence when selling people from NA on it since that is the name everyone knows but who are the big 90s/early 00s Nigerians & Ghanians? I stumble across them at times, but really have no idea the progression of things before D'Banj started blowing up, surely the current generation listened to a lot of that shit (plus of course Euro & NA stuff) too right?

So... apparently it's gonna be the summer of Wizkid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktu5j-VVRLM

and Simmel, Olamide has a lot of styles. From your answer I'm guessing your problem mostly has to do with unfamiliarity with this stuff. It kind of neatly illustrates what I was trying to discuss above, namely that some african styles seem to cross over more easily than others and that maybe perhaps what's hot in Nigeria atm won't necessarily do it for relative newcomers. But there's really just one solution and that is to immerse yourself in all of it, even the stuff you don't really get at first. You probably won't regret it.

Yes, definitely. I liked you distinctions farther up and commented so you could maybe expand on them. I would appreciate any sort of recommendations.

I wrote about the history of it in the fader piece I did on this stuff

I also recently spoke w ayo jay and he identified wande coal's stuff from the Late 00s as the real year zero for the most recent movement, more than dbanj

As in "the difference between Show You The Money/Fans Mi and Who You Epp is effectively Ojuelegba. This is all speculative, but hey, let's speculate.

― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Wednesday, June 15, 2016 2:48 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Idk some of the speculation going on here feels overdetermined to me. Like there are so many more dynamics going on here than just "success in the west" and again it's how these tensions play out in the music that makes this stuff interesting, but not in this flattened authentic/"pop" way imo

I don't like Kiss Daniel either. He sounds like a crossover version of this stuff and just feels generic.

Like cmon this is insane

Don't these guys play to crowds of tens of thousands of people? It seems very obvious why they would be more interested in reaching African listeners rather than Western audiences where the best you can hope for is maybe selling out the Indigo2 or wherever.

Idk some of the speculation going on here feels overdetermined to me. Like there are so many more dynamics going on here than just "success in the west" and again it's how these tensions play out in the music that makes this stuff interesting, but not in this flattened authentic/"pop" way imo

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, June 19, 2016 12:26 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Part of this is informed bythe time I reached out to sarz on twitter asking for a cdq of Sound It so that I could play it out and he hit me back through dm thanking for the support, then adding "More edm infused vibes coming……wait on it" - and I couldn't help thinking that he probably thought that I, as a Westerner, wanted was more "edm" when of course I was not. So the speculation goes that maybe Ojuelegba changed that mentality a bit. That is how I'm interpreting Wizkid's accelerating Fela infatuation, at the very least. Yes, there was Jaiye Jaiye already, but after Ojuelegba we got Expensive Shit, the Fela tattoo and him sharing concert footage of Fela concerts on FB. I'm not saying that's the ONLY dynamic going on atm, but I do think it's there.

EDM vibes have always been a potentially interesting direction for them imo, beat of life is p EDM ish
But then current EDM doesn't sound like EDM

Absolutely. What got to me was the way he singled out edm as THE ingredient that would keep me interested.

Don't these guys play to crowds of tens of thousands of people?

fader profile on davido earlier this year seemed to suggest this wasn't the case in nigeria at least:

In Nigeria, concerns about security, a lack of concert venues, and deep income disparity mean there are few large, ticketed events; aside from a handful of public concerts, private shows like these are the norm.

I don't like Kiss Daniel either. He sounds like a crossover version of this stuff and just feels generic.

Like cmon this is insane

I meant in a specific sort of "80's world music pop crossover" way. Not sure how you could not notice that vibe in Kiss Daniel.

My wife said pretty much the same thing when I played Mama the other day. That it felt less modern than what I usually played and gave her Sting vibes.

I think you guys are bringing a lot of external baggage to this that doesn't really map out on this music the same way. To me kiss Daniel sounds very modern (particularly in terms of its rhythms) tho obv there's some throwback element at play (cf the horns in "good time"). But regardless this is a very different context and there are lots of different tensions going on, I'd encourage appreciating it more holistically

I guess what I'm saying is I'm getting this sense u guys are like, "this is great but what if it was even more like stuff I already like" when what I really love about it is that its rules are so completely different that it makes you reconsider the aesthetic rules we take for granted....maybe uh 80s sting vibes were over-hated, or whatever... "Leave the cool parts" (c. Chance the rapper) feels like a boring way to approach the most populous African country's sound nm "Afrobeats" as a whole

yeah wait kiss daniel is great cuz it sounds like an album drake & paul simon could enjoy equally

That Kiss Daniel song is pretty; yawn @ "authenticity"

Went back to the first entry and looked for music since posted and added like thirty tracks, so the playlist is up to date. Found a lot of great songs. Good looking out!

ILM's Rolling Afrobeat & Afropop Thread 2016 Spotify Playlist

Except I'm not my wife and really love the Kiss Daniel album and Mama in particular. It's more that I've been listening to so much of this stuff over the past four years or so that I'm curious about how new listeners are hearing this.

xpost to deej, of course

I didn't want to drop the Sting bomb but yeah, that's how I hear Kiss Daniel. I respect that you guys can get into it, but I'd rather get a sense of where Soweto Baby comes from and get more of that. I'm boring I guess. I've read some Ayo Jay interviews and got more context. Wande Coal seems like a way to go.

Junior and pretty are the real start of this lineage back in the early 90s. Then groups like trybsemen & plantashun boys. The modern version starts w the wande coal/dbanj/don jazzy album "curriculum vitae"

Thanks!

Actually, early Wande Coal is very interesting since it's fairly obvious that's where Wizkid got his style from, more or less. The 2008 Mushin 2 Mohits album is out of print so I'll risk uploading it for you:
http://www93.zippyshare.com/v/BLiEI3eW/file.html

i.e.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LElmPMNaCU4

Some new stuff.

Lil Kesh just dropped a new video from his album, the mummy-loving Ishe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZMaPZTQay4

And here's the official video for Konkobility. No Diana Ross 70s vibes, I'm afraid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMG3Hz7pOHY

Mr. Eazi is increasingly providing the soundtrack of my summer. Here's Anointing with Sarkodie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5cY8jKVdRk

Actually, early Wande Coal is very interesting since it's fairly obvious that's where Wizkid got his style from, more or less. The 2008 Mushin 2 Mohits album is out of print so I'll risk uploading it for you:
http://www93.zippyshare.com/v/BLiEI3eW/file.html

― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Monday, June 20, 2016 1:35 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

do you happen to have curriculum vitae?

I think have a low bitrate rip on this computer but it's also in itunes:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/currliculum-vitae/id321264519

glenn mcdonald - cheers for that 'afro-trap' playlist. don't detect any trap in there, but most of what i heard sounds like it's from Cote d'Ivoire