In "Your Party" it does seem to me as if they are the sort of people who go to upper middle class swinger parties but this is just a nice quiet one for them. Reminds me of that film The New Age starring Peter Weller and Judy Davis, but without the spiritual crisis.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 20:51 (seven years ago) link
Re: the other topic, I wouldn't waste any time arguing with someone who found Ween offensive. It's a subjective thing but also that's kinda what they were going for at times.
― What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 7 June 2016 21:40 (seven years ago) link
I had read about them being accused of sexism and racism, not just gross stuff.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 22:05 (seven years ago) link
OK sexism I guess I can understand, but racism?
― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 02:00 (seven years ago) link
even sexism is hard to make a strong case for. the point of You Fucked Up is the narrator's inarticulacy in the face of specific emotional hurt, not anything about a gender.
― glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 03:30 (seven years ago) link
i thought the point was the narrator's "inarticulacy" in the face of being a fucking moron with nothing to say about anything
― normcore strengthening exercises (benbbag), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 05:59 (seven years ago) link
I seem to recall it was about one of the teachers in their high school who had given them a hard time in class, they were 14/15 when they wrote it; maybe best not to stare too deeply into that particular lyrical pool.'Don't Get 2 Close 2 My Fantasy' on the other hand...
― ringworm, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 07:04 (seven years ago) link
yeah I honestly can't tell if that one's really sinister or "Buckingham Green"-type lyrical nonsense
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 12:52 (seven years ago) link
It's dark and gross, but it's not sinister.
― how's life, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 13:00 (seven years ago) link
it's certainly sinister - that's the whole point, really - but i can't imagine many being offended by it
― the world over the crotch. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 13:09 (seven years ago) link
I mean, the narrator is sinister, but Ween aren't trying to promote pedophilia or anything.
― how's life, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 13:23 (seven years ago) link
Spinal Meningitis is probably the worst one they have along those lines...not offensive but really really bleak. I heard someone try to cast it as them making fun of people with the disease but I can't read it that way at all.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 13:48 (seven years ago) link
That's the first one that comes to mind when I think 'potentially offensive Ween song'.
― What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 13:51 (seven years ago) link
it goofs on horror for sickly lols. that solo tho.
― the world over the crotch. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 14:00 (seven years ago) link
^ apt description of every Ween song ever
― What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 14:15 (seven years ago) link
who is expected to be offended by Spinal Meningitis, very stupid Christians?
― glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 17:51 (seven years ago) link
Parents of children with spinal meningitis?
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
People who can't, or at least don't like to, deal with unpleasant subjects bluntly?
― pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 18:05 (seven years ago) link
social justice worriers?
― the world over the crotch. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 18:32 (seven years ago) link
it's not blunt, though. it's expressing careful, crafted empathy to sufferers of, or adjacent to, the condition.
if parents of children with spinal meningitis were fans enough of Ween to make it to an album track on their fourth LP, they had probably been through enough tough times to find mordant charm and gallows humour in the song
getting xposts on zing but can't see them obv
― glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 18:38 (seven years ago) link
although I just checked and it was track two side one, they didn't have to make it too far
was thinking it wasn't until side two
― glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 18:41 (seven years ago) link
That song is really disturbing (regardless of being offensive or not), gets to me in a way that none of that type of music does.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 19:34 (seven years ago) link
yeah I have a real difficult time listening to it. kinda hate that they perform it live so much.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link
The 33 1/3 book on Chocolate and Cheese gives a lot of insight to how they think about they're lyrics. Jumps from from the sincere to the stoned through a range of quite personal points of references. It's kind of what makes their lyrics great; once you tune into the language and attitude you start to understand it.
― ringworm, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
'their lyrics'
Don't get this tbh.
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 19:59 (seven years ago) link
what part of it? it's a song about a small child going through medical treatment - it disturbs me
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 20:34 (seven years ago) link
You're obv. a lot more sensitive than me!
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 20:49 (seven years ago) link
Disturbing is a feature, not a bug.
― pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 20:53 (seven years ago) link
Yeah it's nothing against them, just hits me in a weird place is all
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 June 2016 21:02 (seven years ago) link
The first time I heard Spinal Meningitis I wondered if I had made a huge mistake by getting into Ween and could ever listen to that song again
― PaulTMA, Thursday, 9 June 2016 11:54 (seven years ago) link
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Wednesday, June 8, 2016 12:59 PM (Yesterday)
eh, most people have a vaguely-defined threshold past which enjoyably weird & creepy becomes upsetting, not funny at all. first time i heard "22 going on 23" by the butthole surfers, it threw me quite forcefully over that line, and i've never since wanted to hear it again. to say nothing of throbbing gristle's "hamburger lady"...
― the world over the crotch. (contenderizer), Thursday, 9 June 2016 14:38 (seven years ago) link
You will probably not be surprised to learn I love both those songs.
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Thursday, 9 June 2016 14:42 (seven years ago) link
Kind of draw the line at "Slug Bait" though.
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Thursday, 9 June 2016 14:43 (seven years ago) link
yeah, there's no shortage of unpleasant tg lyrics
― the world over the crotch. (contenderizer), Thursday, 9 June 2016 14:50 (seven years ago) link
I was thinking of that Butthole Surfers song. There's a few things about it.
In the sample a woman talks about being sexually assaulted and having bad dreams about it. According to them it was a woman who kept phoning into a radio show with different made up stories that contradicted each other. They said the track is a big fuck you to her for making up all these stories. But listeners have no way of knowing this unless they know this trivia and it simply sounds like they are using the account of a woman who's been sexually assaulted for shock value and listeners are likely to feel sympathetic towards her. Even if a most of her stories were made up, it's very possible she was sexually assaulted and/or suffered from mental illness.
There's also the Lisa Germano song
The song 'A Psychopath', which samples a real 911 call where a woman confronts an intruder in her home,[6] was inspired by an experience Germano had as a child, when she was riding her bike and a strange man exposed himself to her.[5] The song was written about the general feeling of powerlessness that women can experience, especially with regard to sexual predators.[5] She obtained the 911 call recording from a rape centre (with their permission), after originally encountering it in a documentary about violence.[1] She was initially hesitant to use the recording, thinking it was "too intense", however ultimately decided it was something worth saying.[4] Germano has said that making the song was scary and very upsetting, and that she had trouble sleeping after recording it.[1]
Obviously Germano is well meaning but I wonder if the woman in the sample was asked, because if not, I don't think she should have used it.
Then there's some sampled interviews about people's horrible lives in Swans.
Even if all this stuff was used with the best construcive intent in brilliant music, a lot of people wouldn't like their traumas to be used like that.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 9 June 2016 19:48 (seven years ago) link
re: "22 Going On 23" thank you for explaining that. I like the song a lot better now. Definitely felt uncomfortable the last few times I heard it.
― billstevejim, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 01:53 (seven years ago) link
i don't listen to them at all as far as their CDs go - last one i probably heard all the way through was the pod when that came out - but sometimes i will flip through stuff on youtube and i feel like i can point to some of their genre homages and say: okay, that's better than any phish/neutral milk hotel/destroyer/of montreal/paul mccartney/etc song i've ever heard.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 02:12 (seven years ago) link
and they are also weird in the way i can listen to a song by them and say: okay, that's better than any latter-day tears for fears song i've ever heard.
who else could i even say that about?
― scott seward, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 02:15 (seven years ago) link
i feel like i can point to some of their genre homages and say: okay, that's better than any phish/neutral milk hotel/destroyer/of montreal/paul mccartney/etc song i've ever heard.― scott seward, Tuesday, March 7, 2017 6:12 PM (two minutes ago)
― scott seward, Tuesday, March 7, 2017 6:12 PM (two minutes ago)
yup, same here. also with you on the listening approach. a song here, a song there, but i never sit down & listen to a ween album.
― “Remember,” he says, “Noddy Holder is a gangster.” (contenderizer), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 02:25 (seven years ago) link
oh wait, shit, you had mccartney in there?
― “Remember,” he says, “Noddy Holder is a gangster.” (contenderizer), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 02:26 (seven years ago) link
haha, well, just thinking of examples off the top of my head. i've heard some mccartney-esque ween that i would probably rather listen to than a lot of mccartney though.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 04:27 (seven years ago) link
a ween tribute album done by serious singer-songwriter types playing the songs straight with modern digital folk-rock production would be cool. to me.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 04:29 (seven years ago) link
Ween are one of those bands where the live recordings almost always shred the studio albums. Archive.org has a zillion live shows you can download for free, some of which have stellar sound quality. You could spend months and months going through those.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 14:04 (seven years ago) link
it's funny that two burnout kids who met in typing class ended up like living a rock and roll fantasy... they really turned into an amazing live band
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 14:19 (seven years ago) link
yea especially since they weren't exactly talented chaps to begin with. I doubt anyone who heard their early recordings was thinking "it's rough, but damn they've got potential!"
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 14:41 (seven years ago) link
i did! kinda. i mean i thought god/ween/satan and the pod were really ambitious but i guess that's not that early. they obviously had song-writing ability.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 15:11 (seven years ago) link
i kinda think of them as an oingo boingo i would listen to. and later a jam band i would listen to. even though i only listen occasionally on youtube. i can even imagine seeing ween on acid would be fun.
i do see weird (science) parallels. O.B. even had acoustic interludes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYfjDyGPt4g
― scott seward, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 15:14 (seven years ago) link
i have never actually listened to an oingo boingo album. did ween ever have horn sections on their later albums?
― scott seward, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 15:15 (seven years ago) link
scott you should check out the white pepper some time. it is a stone-cold kinks are the village green preservation society / who sell out-level classic
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 15:16 (seven years ago) link