The Cure: Classic or Dud?

first Cure album I picked up was Wild Mood Swings. Guess it was always going to take a while to get into them properly

"This Is A Lie" is one of my favourites on that album.

there are so many songs on this album where lyrically it feels like Robert completely lost his grip on the natural cadence of the English language

My first Cure show. Yes. Old. http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-cure/1985/radio-city-music-hall-new-york-ny-4bd7f70e.html

I never liked "Mint Car" much but I feel bad for Smith because he thought it was one of the greatest pop songs he'd ever done and was saddened that it didn't surpass "Friday I'm In Love" as a single.

lessons learned IMO

(seriously though, if they'd dumped half of WMS for the b-sides, it would have been so much better)

Talking about how bad WMS is kind of makes me sad. I don't understand what happened to them post Wish.
On most songs I want to tell Robert to calm the hell down and on the others he puts me to sleep. Also I'm not really sure what kind of sound they were going for, some with lots of cheesy synths, some very acoustic. Just a mess.

"Mint Car" is embarrassing. "Strange Attraction" could be great but at the time the production sounded like Jam & Lewis six years too late. I like, not love, "Want", "Jupiter Crash", "Gone!" and "The 13th". The rest is either awful or boring.

Well, Wild Mood Swings was really recorded by what you could call a "broken" band. They were pretty much auditioning drummers during the recording process, if I remember correctly.

"Strange Attraction" could be great but at the time the production sounded like Jam & Lewis six years too late

precisely why it rules

pretty much auditioning drummers during the recording process

Without the qualifiers, yes, they did this. Auditioners who played on the record are thanked in the sleeve, including Martin Gilks from Weknowwhereyoulive.

I think one of the things I do miss on Wild Mood Swings is Boris' approach to the drumming. Boris had a real knack of "composing" his drum parts which not only served the tracks but became hooks or riffs themselves. I love 'Want', for example, but often when listening to it I can't help but wonder what Boris would have done with it. There's certainly a lot of clattery drum fills on Wild Mood Swings which Boris would have probably avoided. Jason's use of the hi-hat spoils some of the earlier Cure songs live, too.

Conversely, I think Jason's bludgeony style is perfectly suited to songs like "Lost", "The Promise", "The Scream", "It's Over", "Before Three", and "All Kinds of Stuff"

Thought this revive would have been about the six deluxe edition CD reissues on Rhino released tomorrow. Not sure if these were previously released in the UK (I believe this was the case with the recent Sabbath reissues) but they're new to me! Definitely picking up Faith and Seventeen Seconds, and, if they're cheap enough, Pornography and Three Imaginary Boys (no real interest in HOTD or KMKMKM).

these came out years ago. are they being reissued or something? it's fucking time to do Wish (and then quit because I don't care about deluxe anything after that)

Wild Mood Swings suffers from the same problem that Wish had; in that its b-sides were all better than at least half of what made the proper album.

Also, RE: the inner band turmoil in that period: don't forget that 1995 was one of the times that Simon quit (albeit, temporarily, but that is Robert playing bass on some of those songs).

This also reminds me of a couple things related to Wild Mood Swings. It was originally intended to be an all (or mostly) acoustic album. That's why a lot of the songs have acoustics and live string sections up front in the mix. Of course, just like many of his other ideas, Robert couldn't stick with it to completion, so the album ended up as the mix bag it is.

Many years back, I made my own version of the album, getting rid of the songs I didn't care for and incorporating all of the b-sides. To this day, it's the only way I listen to the album and it's the only version I have saved in my iTunes. The tracklist is such:

Want
Waiting
Home
This is a Lie
Ocean
Jupiter Crash
Treasure
The 13th
Adonais
A Pink Dream
Mint Car
Gone!
Trap
Numb
It Used to be Me
Bare

It's a much moodier affair in this configuration; much more of a proper "Cure" album. Wild Mood Swings will never be my favorite and/or top rated Cure material, but because of this iteration, it has always retained a special spot with me.

Didn't realize there was any hate for "Strange Attraction", it's probably my favorite single post-Wish. Well, I guess Wrong Number is better. Love the Jam-Lewis style beat and hearing "can I use some of your lipstick?" gives me immense joy. Pretty great lyrics all around, actually

It's a really hokey song.

Strange abomination

one of the times that Simon quit (albeit, temporarily, but that is Robert playing bass on some of those songs)

Robert plays four- or six-string bass on some of every Cure album from the mid-'80s on iirc

I'm really surprised how many people don't seem to like "Wish." I love the three guitars, I love Boris, I love the songs, I love those songs live, probably more than any other Cure album's songs. I've got no problems with it.

Wish rules, naysayers are crazy

these came out years ago. are they being reissued or something?
― akm, Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It appears so! Like I said, this may be the first time they've been released in the US with the bonus discs. Was "Carnage Visors" ever available elsewhere? Anyway, I'm excited, as I've never heard a lot of these demos / rarities.

They were definitely all released in the US (assuming these are the same deluxe versions as the first go round); I have all of them.

"Carnage Visors" was packaged with Faith on cassette back in the 80s.

Yeah, everything up through Disintegration was issued by Rhino in the US in these deluxe editions starting about 10 years ago. I guess they've been out of print? It looks like these are just straight reissues of the same deluxe editions.

I think time has made me kinder to WMS - it still doesnt really work but I see it now as the last time RS tried something new. Every album since then as been very safe, Cure by numbers
Oh and Return used to be a guilty pleasure, but by now I've lost all the guilt - it's a great song. Stolichnaya, Banco da Gaia (remember him), Bad Timing on TV...

I don't think Bloodflowers sounds like the others very much.

and the s/t in its non-"taking off" songs gets pretty wild

The way I see the stalled Cure reissue series is this -- the first reissue came out in 2004. The first Siouxsie reissue came out in 2005. The Siouxsie series went along, completely stopped, stalled and then finally completed...and the Cure reissue series STILL hasn't budged since 2010!

As far as the reissues go, It's great to hear tracks from the early gigs that were bootlegged from European radio broadcasts at the time, like the version of In Your House with completely different lyrics that appeared on the Curiosities cassette.

Aren't some of the demos bastards though? Robert recorded vocals long after the fact?

Only the Glove ones were like that. And I don't mind those, I think it's a really nice alternate way to hear the album!

I'm really surprised how many people don't seem to like "Wish." I love the three guitars, I love Boris, I love the songs, I love those songs live, probably more than any other Cure album's songs. I've got no problems with it.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, May 13, 2016 7:34 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wish rules, naysayers are crazy

― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP)

otmmmmmmmmm

It's great to hear tracks from the early gigs that were bootlegged from European radio broadcasts at the time, like the version of In Your House with completely different lyrics that appeared on the Curiosities cassette.

I had been obsessed with the concept of "Two People" ever since I read about it so discovering it on the Curiosities tape was super thrilling; I'd basically given up hope of ever getting a good copy on CD until the reissues came around (in fact, it was very high on my wish list for the reissues)

I never knew it was called Two People!

The long songs on Wish rule. Doing The Unstuck too. Not sure about the rest

Many x-posts:

While it's true that Robert has been playing 4 and 6 string basses on Cure albums since at least Faith, he had a tendency to use them as a lead instrument rather than a bass instrument - it's one of the main components in the Cure sound.

He used the Fender Bass VI in all ways on The Top, though. The bass riff on the title track still all-time for me.

xp to MaresNest: IIRC I got that info from Ten Imaginary Years? I definitely remember a lot about how things mutated from the demo/workshop process into the songs that ended up on albums (see also "Cold Colours" --> "Primary")

xpost: Yes, RS has used the six string a lot. In fact, it's his signature sound when he's using it as a lead — like in 'Pictures of You' or 'High.' But he specifically played basslines on some of the Wild Mood Swings material, as Simon was not around. Listen to the bass in 'It Used to be Me' and it's unmistakably in Robert's style. Simon has a very melodic, but rhythmically precise voice, always right on the beat, whereas Robert dances around the rhythm a little bit, always a bit behind or ahead of the beat.

oh man I looooooove "It Used To Be Me" and "Ocean"

Indeed. Like I said, the b-sides are all very good.

OTM about Simon being rhythmically precise - it's one of the huge reasons why he and Boris made such a wonderful rhythm section. 'Fascination Street' is a great example!

. The Siouxsie series went along, completely stopped, stalled and then finally completed...and the Cure reissue series STILL hasn't budged since 2010!

Remember the Cure one also stalled for yeeeears, with everyone saying "oh god at least please get to Disintegration even if you don't make it further," and then they put out Disintegration in a different format all by itself. Writing was on the wall that there wouldn't be any more.

(The demos from Wish that a '90s fansite had up for years were great though, sorry to miss those.)

(But also the Disintegration remaster was such a shambles - RS putting together two discs of bonus material, then making one of them only available in a proprietary streaming format, in favour of a badly sequenced and unlistenably brickwalled Entreat remaster. Imagine if they'd just properly mixed and released that show as a companion volume instead.) (Was the Disintegration remaster itself also fucked? I can't remember. But I have a feeling it was a long way from "THIs MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO PLAY LOUD SO TURN IT UP")

It was definitely loudened but I have gone back and forth as to whether I prefer it or the orig cd

My favourite Cure drummer is Lol, so I have no problem with Jason Cooper.

there are so many songs on this album where lyrically it feels like Robert completely lost his grip on the natural cadence of the English language

^^^THIS. Something happened after Wish - too much success?? Robert's lyrics seemed to become Cure-lite or lists of things and he's never fully recovered. I LOVED "The 13th" - a really exciting and fun single - the last time they did something completely bonkers and left-field. There were a few other decent songs on the album, but I could never bring myself to listen to "Strange Attraction" again. That song is completely revolting.

I think there are some really good songs on The Cure and 4:13 Dream, but WMS and Bloodflowers are weak. I can't listen to much besides the title track from the latter.

LOVED "The 13th" - a really exciting and fun single - the last time they did something completely bonkers and left-field

Wrong Number.

"Wrong Number" doesn't feel like much of a stretch from "Never Enough" to me.

I love the playful moments on WMS like Gone! and The 13th and can't imagine anything like that appearing on any of the band's subsequent records.

Bloodflowers, The Cure and 4:13 Dream are all different albums in many respects but they all feel a bit limited in imagination and scope.

tours i have seen:

The Top tour (my first ever concert) (Palladium Hollywood)
The Head on the Door x 3 (Irvine Meadows, Forum and Irvine Meadows '86)
Kiss Me x 2 (Forum July 14, 15 1987)
Disintegration x 2 (Dodgers Stadium, San Diego Sports Arena)
Wish x 2 (Long Beach Arena, The Rose Bowl)
WMS - missed was living in San Francisco
Bloodflowers living in San Francisco but went to SoCal (Irvine Meadows)
2016 Reflections Tour? - May 22, 2016