The Cure: Classic or Dud?

"The 13th" was definitely a skew-whiff effort in the best of ways, it really was unexpected in terms of what had come before as well as the context of 1996. And it just seems to float in its own universe.

Wish and Mixed Up were my first and favourite Cure records, because I was 13-14 when they came out, and emotionally they just seemed to *fit*. Weirdly, after that I bought a lot of the back catalogue but never any of the new releases - except the cassingle of The 13th.

I seem to remember the live versions of 13th had a female vocalist on the chors, and being disappointed she wasn't on the recorded version. Is that right?

"The 13th" was great and really elevated my expectations for WMS

When I got it and heard "Want", I was like "OMG YES YES YES THIS IS INCREDIBLE"

Then I heard "Club America"

I am still mad 20 years later

WMS has a bunch of good songs (Want, Jupiter Crash, The 13th, Trap, Treasure, Numb, Bare) and some songs that are ridiculous but I like anyway (Gone!, Round and Round and Round) but it also has some of the absolute worst things they have ever, ever recorded (Club America, Strange Attraction, Return, Mint Car, This Is A Lie) and my dislike for those songs has only increased as time has gone on, moving WMS from "their least successful album" to "unambiguously the worst album they've ever done and if I ever hear the whole thing again I may be force to cut someone"

I take it back about only disliking 'Round & Round & Round' on WMS. 'Gone!' is pretty terrible. And the lyrics to 'Numb' are unfortunate, to say the least. 'Treasure' is quite lovely!

awww, I like 'Return'!

tbf I didn't like "Gone!" that much until I encountered the Ultraliving mix

"Return" is, without a single doubt in my mind, the absolute worst song they have EVER recorded. I could probably write a novel about how much I hate that song.

I agree with Ned, re: 'The 13th' in that it was one of those singles that didn't seem to fit in anywhere... As the first new material from the band in ages it didn't really seem to logically follow on from Wish, but it sounded really out of whack with everything that was going on at the time. It was almost as if it been made by someone locked away in the studio and ignoring the outside world completely, only to re-emerge and be like "hey, have this!"

I like the sitar-y guitar part in 'Club America', but I've just been having a quick listen to Wild Mood Swings now and... a lot of this really hasn't aged very well, has it!?

Saw them from fourth row in June '92 at the Miami Arena. The set list.

check out all those Seventeen Seconds selections.

xxxp? i would read a synopsis of the "why 'Return' is the worst song The Cure have ever recorded.

As for the 13th, horn sections were kinda having a revival at the time with ska/swing/lounge music kind of bubbling up into the mainstream. so, its not totally out of step with the times. It still doesn't really fit in, but I can see the idea of thinking, "the kids will dig this!" at least from the point of view of a record company picking it as the first single.

and the Cur had always liked horns

'Mint Car' is still ace, IMO. I have never, and will never understand why folks dislike it.

"Mint Car" is saccharine nothingness, completely empty and shrill with none of the parts of the song coming together in any satisfying way. HOWEVER, all of its b-sides are amazing (particularly "Home").

"Return" takes that same saccharine nothingness, speeds it up, adds in an even uglier vocal and some of the cheesiest, most obvious keyboard riffs and horn blasts imaginable in a wholly self-satisfied, concentrated pile of aural garbage.

i think "strange attraction" rules. i love how cheesy it is

but then i also enjoy "return." good horns

I liked "Strange Attraction" for a couple of weeks and then one day the rambling meter of the verses mixed in with the super clunky chorus got on my nerves, like it was trying to be pop-goth inverted version of "We Belong Together" and failing miserably

that said, I do sill like the "I'm sorry/Blame infatuation/Blame imagination/I was sure you'd be the one but I was wrong" part of the song

first Cure album I picked up was Wild Mood Swings. Guess it was always going to take a while to get into them properly

"This Is A Lie" is one of my favourites on that album.

there are so many songs on this album where lyrically it feels like Robert completely lost his grip on the natural cadence of the English language

My first Cure show. Yes. Old. http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-cure/1985/radio-city-music-hall-new-york-ny-4bd7f70e.html

I never liked "Mint Car" much but I feel bad for Smith because he thought it was one of the greatest pop songs he'd ever done and was saddened that it didn't surpass "Friday I'm In Love" as a single.

lessons learned IMO

(seriously though, if they'd dumped half of WMS for the b-sides, it would have been so much better)

Talking about how bad WMS is kind of makes me sad. I don't understand what happened to them post Wish.
On most songs I want to tell Robert to calm the hell down and on the others he puts me to sleep. Also I'm not really sure what kind of sound they were going for, some with lots of cheesy synths, some very acoustic. Just a mess.

"Mint Car" is embarrassing. "Strange Attraction" could be great but at the time the production sounded like Jam & Lewis six years too late. I like, not love, "Want", "Jupiter Crash", "Gone!" and "The 13th". The rest is either awful or boring.

Well, Wild Mood Swings was really recorded by what you could call a "broken" band. They were pretty much auditioning drummers during the recording process, if I remember correctly.

"Strange Attraction" could be great but at the time the production sounded like Jam & Lewis six years too late

precisely why it rules

pretty much auditioning drummers during the recording process

Without the qualifiers, yes, they did this. Auditioners who played on the record are thanked in the sleeve, including Martin Gilks from Weknowwhereyoulive.

I think one of the things I do miss on Wild Mood Swings is Boris' approach to the drumming. Boris had a real knack of "composing" his drum parts which not only served the tracks but became hooks or riffs themselves. I love 'Want', for example, but often when listening to it I can't help but wonder what Boris would have done with it. There's certainly a lot of clattery drum fills on Wild Mood Swings which Boris would have probably avoided. Jason's use of the hi-hat spoils some of the earlier Cure songs live, too.

Conversely, I think Jason's bludgeony style is perfectly suited to songs like "Lost", "The Promise", "The Scream", "It's Over", "Before Three", and "All Kinds of Stuff"

Thought this revive would have been about the six deluxe edition CD reissues on Rhino released tomorrow. Not sure if these were previously released in the UK (I believe this was the case with the recent Sabbath reissues) but they're new to me! Definitely picking up Faith and Seventeen Seconds, and, if they're cheap enough, Pornography and Three Imaginary Boys (no real interest in HOTD or KMKMKM).

these came out years ago. are they being reissued or something? it's fucking time to do Wish (and then quit because I don't care about deluxe anything after that)

Wild Mood Swings suffers from the same problem that Wish had; in that its b-sides were all better than at least half of what made the proper album.

Also, RE: the inner band turmoil in that period: don't forget that 1995 was one of the times that Simon quit (albeit, temporarily, but that is Robert playing bass on some of those songs).

This also reminds me of a couple things related to Wild Mood Swings. It was originally intended to be an all (or mostly) acoustic album. That's why a lot of the songs have acoustics and live string sections up front in the mix. Of course, just like many of his other ideas, Robert couldn't stick with it to completion, so the album ended up as the mix bag it is.

Many years back, I made my own version of the album, getting rid of the songs I didn't care for and incorporating all of the b-sides. To this day, it's the only way I listen to the album and it's the only version I have saved in my iTunes. The tracklist is such:

Want
Waiting
Home
This is a Lie
Ocean
Jupiter Crash
Treasure
The 13th
Adonais
A Pink Dream
Mint Car
Gone!
Trap
Numb
It Used to be Me
Bare

It's a much moodier affair in this configuration; much more of a proper "Cure" album. Wild Mood Swings will never be my favorite and/or top rated Cure material, but because of this iteration, it has always retained a special spot with me.

Didn't realize there was any hate for "Strange Attraction", it's probably my favorite single post-Wish. Well, I guess Wrong Number is better. Love the Jam-Lewis style beat and hearing "can I use some of your lipstick?" gives me immense joy. Pretty great lyrics all around, actually

It's a really hokey song.

Strange abomination

one of the times that Simon quit (albeit, temporarily, but that is Robert playing bass on some of those songs)

Robert plays four- or six-string bass on some of every Cure album from the mid-'80s on iirc

I'm really surprised how many people don't seem to like "Wish." I love the three guitars, I love Boris, I love the songs, I love those songs live, probably more than any other Cure album's songs. I've got no problems with it.

Wish rules, naysayers are crazy

these came out years ago. are they being reissued or something?
― akm, Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It appears so! Like I said, this may be the first time they've been released in the US with the bonus discs. Was "Carnage Visors" ever available elsewhere? Anyway, I'm excited, as I've never heard a lot of these demos / rarities.

They were definitely all released in the US (assuming these are the same deluxe versions as the first go round); I have all of them.

"Carnage Visors" was packaged with Faith on cassette back in the 80s.

Yeah, everything up through Disintegration was issued by Rhino in the US in these deluxe editions starting about 10 years ago. I guess they've been out of print? It looks like these are just straight reissues of the same deluxe editions.

I think time has made me kinder to WMS - it still doesnt really work but I see it now as the last time RS tried something new. Every album since then as been very safe, Cure by numbers
Oh and Return used to be a guilty pleasure, but by now I've lost all the guilt - it's a great song. Stolichnaya, Banco da Gaia (remember him), Bad Timing on TV...

I don't think Bloodflowers sounds like the others very much.

and the s/t in its non-"taking off" songs gets pretty wild

The way I see the stalled Cure reissue series is this -- the first reissue came out in 2004. The first Siouxsie reissue came out in 2005. The Siouxsie series went along, completely stopped, stalled and then finally completed...and the Cure reissue series STILL hasn't budged since 2010!

As far as the reissues go, It's great to hear tracks from the early gigs that were bootlegged from European radio broadcasts at the time, like the version of In Your House with completely different lyrics that appeared on the Curiosities cassette.