Yes,I recommend "Just Kids"
― Mark G, Friday, 6 May 2016 06:51 (eight years ago) link
punk sucks
If I could time-travel, the New York mid-70s punk scene would be one of my favoured destinations.
― Half-baked profundities. Self-referential smirkiness (Bob Six), Friday, 6 May 2016 07:27 (eight years ago) link
Bought this years ago. Played it twice. Completely underwhelmed each time. It's poetry rock, and who wants that? I don't.
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 6 May 2016 08:40 (eight years ago) link
xp me too
― contenderizer, Friday, 6 May 2016 11:10 (eight years ago) link
If you don't get much out of the incredible rollercoaster momentum of Gloria and Free Money, or the chorus of Break It Up then I don't know what to say in response. I see so many of the haters on this thread repping for so many dull and/or turgid rock records and this is the one you come out to bat against?
I think Patti in general came across at both the right AND the wrong point in musical history, in that I associate her with a kind of bohemianism that was starting to feel old-fashioned. This is pretty much the only area where comparing her with Debbie Harry (who really did seem like the future) is remotely useful. But at the same time her music is primal and squally enough that associating her with punk doesn't feel totally inappropriate.
― Matt DC, Friday, 6 May 2016 11:23 (eight years ago) link
I don't think I'll ever be able to read fans of Killing Joke and Grizzly Bear throw shade on Patti Smith without rolling my eyes.
― Matt DC, Friday, 6 May 2016 11:28 (eight years ago) link
I dont really understand why Patti needs to be compared with Debbie Harry anyway, and why it is 'remotely useful'.
― Half-baked profundities. Self-referential smirkiness (Bob Six), Friday, 6 May 2016 11:53 (eight years ago) link
I love both equally, but when I listen to Patti I feel like she's positioning herself as part of a lineage that reaches backwards into the Velvets and the Beats, even as she's reacting against that lineage. A kind of bohemianism that predated rock and assimilated it. Whereas Debbie feels like she's reaching forward, into the kind of pop moves and pop forms (rap, disco) that will dominate the decades to come. As icons of a particular scene, they feel like they're on different sides of a watershed.
In general I find the comparisons between them pretty facile and not remotely useful, but people still make them, a lot.
― Matt DC, Friday, 6 May 2016 12:10 (eight years ago) link
You just made a good/interesting one tho, so that's something
― albvivertine, Friday, 6 May 2016 12:26 (eight years ago) link
I think there was some level of rivalry between the 2 back in CBGB days. Patti trying to poach Clem Burke when he auditioned for Blondie was one thing that caused friction. It happened in CBGB itself when Smith happened to be there, not sure how intentionally, but wasn't a very tactful move on her part.
― Stevolende, Friday, 6 May 2016 12:29 (eight years ago) link
Last two posts signed Matt DC are right otm
I was behind her in line at Kim's Underground once, when she dealt with aplomb with an asshole Kim's employee, which forever endeared her to me.
― The WLS National Batdance (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 6 May 2016 12:32 (eight years ago) link
Matt DC tellem
― contenderizer, Friday, 6 May 2016 13:35 (eight years ago) link
I love this album btw, although I may love Easter more.
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Friday, 6 May 2016 13:36 (eight years ago) link
I feel like she's positioning herself as part of a lineage that reaches backwards into the Velvets and the Beats, even as she's reacting against that lineage. A kind of bohemianism that predated rock and assimilated it.
feel the phrase "jim morrison" needs to occur somewhere in that sentence, tho it's perhaps what's giving her detractors the hives
― contenderizer, Friday, 6 May 2016 13:38 (eight years ago) link
Did you not read the thread subject?
fuck a thread title, punk
― contenderizer, Friday, 6 May 2016 13:40 (eight years ago) link
the reality was that the lines between "punk" and "hippie" were always very blurred and ppl on this thread seem to be having some sort of bizarre 1984 argument
greg ginn saw like 80 dead shows!johnny rotten sold acid at hawkwind shows!joe strummer walked around in flares strumming acoustic guitar & looking like nick drake!
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 May 2016 13:54 (eight years ago) link
― Matt DC
truth bomb
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 6 May 2016 13:57 (eight years ago) link
ums OTM
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Friday, 6 May 2016 14:10 (eight years ago) link
i feel like just the image of her on the album cover alone is more important than a lot of bands
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 May 2016 14:10 (eight years ago) link
iggy pop & johnny ramone, you could make the argument the 2 men most responsible for US punk, both loved the Doors
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 May 2016 14:11 (eight years ago) link
I don't even really see her as reacting against a Velvets/Beat (or Stones/Doors) lineage. xp
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Friday, 6 May 2016 14:12 (eight years ago) link
... that wasn't what was being said.
― (Henry) Green container bin with face (Tom D.), Friday, 6 May 2016 14:15 (eight years ago) link
i just don't understand how people are acting like "oh ppl always say that she was supposed to be PUNK MAN but she doesn't sound PUNK" it's like well duh punk evolved out of a stew of post-60s stuff and she did play an important role in that it's like not like Mother Earth just pooped the The Exploited fully formed out of her geological vag
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 May 2016 14:18 (eight years ago) link
however they might've spun it later on, a huge portion of punks were former hippies, or at least former wannabe hippies. i dunno, it might be hard to see from this vantage point but patti smith, horses etc -- it must've been a pretty original, striking thing at the time. which maybe is why there might be some overrating that's gone on over the years ... but I still like that record a lot.
― tylerw, Friday, 6 May 2016 14:22 (eight years ago) link
a lineage that reaches backwards into the Velvets and the Beats, even as she's reacting against that lineage
How is this not what was being said?
― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Friday, 6 May 2016 14:29 (eight years ago) link
iggy pop & johnny ramone, you could make the argument the 2 men most responsible for US punk, both loved the Doors― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, May 6, 2016 2:11 PM
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, May 6, 2016 2:11 PM
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 07:01 (eight years ago) link
i thought iggy was primarilly motivated by jim morrisons stage antics - i cant remember any time he has talked about specific doors songs - put them on any of the mixes he sometimes does etc...if he was into the doors i dont think it was an infatuation that lasted - but i guess he knows best
― peanutbuttereverysingleday, Saturday, 7 May 2016 07:47 (eight years ago) link
The first Stooges album cover was meant to be influenced by The Doors lp, yes.
― Mark G, Saturday, 7 May 2016 08:36 (eight years ago) link
Yeah I always saw it that way. Iggy with airbrushed chin after his alternative cover design idea fell on its face.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 7 May 2016 08:41 (eight years ago) link
Much as it pains me to say it, I believe Iggy has also said he was influenced by Jimbo's singing style. I mean just listen to something like "Tonight." Maybe he felt a little extra simpatico because they were "name brothers."
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 10:56 (eight years ago) link
Why would it pain you? Jim Morrison is a brilliant rock singer. My turn to quote a quote I am constantly quoting, Iggy saying that he'd borrowed so much from Jim Morrison and Mick Jagger that "you might as well call me Jim Jagger or Mick Morrison".
― (Henry) Green container bin with face (Tom D.), Saturday, 7 May 2016 11:06 (eight years ago) link
the ian penman LRB article is just tremendous. i never cared about or liked patti smith's music but that article hypnotized me.
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 7 May 2016 11:28 (eight years ago) link
there's a relevant anecdote in Please Kill Me where Iggy recalls going to a Doors show at University of Michigan ca.1967-68 and admits to being influenced by Jimbo. He also remembers how the MC5 sneered at the Doors music because it's wasn't heavy Detroit rock & roll. "I hate those pussies" said Fred Smith (and thus the circle to Patti is completed).
― indie fresh (m coleman), Saturday, 7 May 2016 11:39 (eight years ago) link
I think Patti in general came across at both the right AND the wrong point in musical history, in that I associate her with a kind of bohemianism that was starting to feel old-fashioned.
Don't forget this crucial and rather forgotten figure who actually sold records:
http://www.rickieleejones.com/images/discography/fotos_rel/Rickie-Lee-Jones-Rolling-Stone_79.jpg
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 May 2016 11:48 (eight years ago) link
Forgotten by who?
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 11:59 (eight years ago) link
Some forgotten figures who didn't sell too many records:http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/620/MI0001620218.jpg?partner=allrovi.com
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 12:01 (eight years ago) link
In the end, back to the subject at hand, as it were. I was put off for a long time by the thick laying on of all the poète maudit (poétesse maudite?) stuff that she seems to like to invoke- with the original Bobby Z that element was always tempered with the Robert Johnson refrains (Happy Birthday Weekend!) and was sometimes underwhelmed by the sonics (lower-case) of the band, but in the end I like some of her tunes and performances plenty, as well as some of her iconic cover poses.
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 12:34 (eight years ago) link
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, May 7, 2016
outside ILM
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 May 2016 12:47 (eight years ago) link
Ah yes, of course. You know, when you first posted that, for a split second I was sure it was a picture of David Johansen.
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 12:51 (eight years ago) link
I'm giving this another shot later today.
― Treeship, Saturday, 7 May 2016 12:56 (eight years ago) link
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs),
lol yeah
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 May 2016 13:03 (eight years ago) link
At some very early, often overlooked, period in his solo career, when he still hadn't transitioned to putting the Dolls dress code fully behind him, and had elements of that mixed in with his incipient new look.
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 13:14 (eight years ago) link
funky funky but chic!
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 May 2016 13:14 (eight years ago) link
Ou est la boutique?
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 13:36 (eight years ago) link
It kinda makes sense that 2 guys in awesome rock bands would be into awesome rock bands like the Doors
MC5 were such bros
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 7 May 2016 13:51 (eight years ago) link
Speaking of some people's disappointed reaction to finally hearing Horses and how not "punk" it was, I actually like em a lot now but first hearing MC5 who I'd read about as the fathers of punk at 19 was more damn this kinda sounds like Steppenwolf
― rockpalast '82 (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 7 May 2016 14:00 (eight years ago) link
The only thing that quote that you quote is missing is a mention of Clem Cattini.
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 14:19 (eight years ago) link
I think a lot of Patti Smith's "punk" cred came from her live performances, which were high-energy and frenzied and of course fronted by a woman with an unconventional voice/appearance who had never really done that sort of thing before. So in that sense Patti Smith was "punk" the same way Lenny Bruce (or hey, Mapplethorpe) was punk, by dint of doing anything out of the box. Anyway, I think there were clearly two strains of punk, the dangerous, radical scare your parents punk (or proto punks) and the no less radical but maybe less overtly confrontational free to do something different punks (which is where you'd slot , say, Talking Heads or Television). Smith probably split the difference.
Keep in mind, just a few years later no one knew where to file Tom Petty! And a few more years after that Los Lobos was sharing bills with PiL and Dwight Yoakum with Husker Du, which shows how easy it was for the longest time to stick out just by doing something a little bit different.
Anyway, sure, Smith's touchstones were the Doors and Dylan and Jimi Hendrix and a whole bunch of classic rock warhorses, but who else would they be at that time?
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 7 May 2016 14:19 (eight years ago) link
Right.
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 14:23 (eight years ago) link
decades old battleshttp://www.dangermouse.net/blog/images/trek/LetThatBeYourLastBattlefield.jpg
― Wrecka Stow Ralph (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 7 May 2016 14:25 (eight years ago) link