Swans: Classic or Dud?

yes, take one

btw why in the world would someone (let alone a bunch of ppl) levy a false anonymous accusation against a person who as far as i can gather is a marginally notable public figure if you happen to move in certain literary and academic circles? what would be gained?

Respect to dlp, no respect to the "kill yourself dlp"s. dlp: I get that this is a threatening situation because accepting Larkin's, Gira's, everyone else's statements as facts puts yourself (and myself and everybody) on a shaky platform of the ambiguity and impetuousness of public opinion, like, "oh gee, so anybody can make a Facebook post saying 'fgti is a rapist' and I just have to deal with that?" I just ask that you put aside phrases like "throwing somebody under the bus" because what is actually going on here is a recognition of an everyday, nearly-commonplace act, of people getting drunk and ignoring consent. It doesn't hurt Gira to say "he raped Larkin"-- rape is a broad term and applies here, but that doesn't make him Jared Fogle. Note that Larkin is not asking for legal recourse, or even accountability. She is asking for understanding. We can accept in equal terms that Larkin claims the sex was non-consensual, and Gira's assertion that it was a "regrettable mistake". We can add into the mix that other sources claim that Larkin is "crazy" and accept that, and have sympathy for her mental state, without letting it determine whether or not she has the ability to recognize when consent is given. The problem with your stance of "let's see the facts" is that it literally serves no purpose. Our culture, on the legal and societal spectrum, does not favour the victims, beyond a rape kit, factually proving a rape is terrifically difficult, and you have an opportunity here to accept all possible truths, believe everybody's point of view. Your only bad direction here is viewing things as black-and-white, that you need Proof! and Facts! you don't need these things. You don't need a notarized document or a police report to read Larkin's story, believe her, read the responses, believe them, and alter your own behaviour, and allow these events to prepare and strengthen yourself for the future sexual abuse of yourself and your family members, either as perpetrators or victims.

standing O ^^^^^^^

thanks fgti, your input here has been great.

dlp you emailed me offboard about some things you went through IRL that relate to this, not gonna go into specifics but someone did lie about you and it went to court and you were the injured party and it sucked. I hope that's vague enough. please, please consider that your personal experiences may be preventing you from seeing the situation in this thread with full clarity. as I said to you offboard, you are a better person (and poster) than this.

but hey, maybe Jon is right and I've only ever interacted with you around music, but we've known each other online for over a decade and I'd really like to think of you as more than some MRA clone.

the above linked page is just garbage.

― dlp9001, Thursday, March 10, 2016 5:06 PM (4 hours ago)

not seeing anything in the vidaweb page that inclines me to sweepingly dismiss the assembled accounts as "garbage". do they definitively prove anything? no. but they are fairly compelling when taken as a whole.

i half want to support your ostensible agnosticism, but your rush to mock, judge and discard women's testimony smacks of something much less intellectually defensible.

i like how this thread is going on seemingly forever

i think it's worth thinking about the fact that dlp and pretty much everyone else on this thread are all posting in relative anonymity with no real names attached. Would you be making the same posts if your government name were attached to them and other people, many whom you don't know, could just link to them and share them willy-nilly? I know I probably would change the way (and amount) I post if that were the case. Then think about that in the context of someone who was sexually assaulted by a famous person, or at least someone more well-known and admired than you.

i half want to support your ostensible agnosticism, but your rush to mock, judge and discard women's testimony smacks of something much less intellectually defensible.

sorry if in irl you got screwed over by a liar. but let me tell you something. i have friends that had this happen to them in real life and have seen them struggle w it over the years and the uphill battle they faced was no joke so fuck you dlp.

also nobody is "throwing him under a bus" nobody is "condemning him" so plz w the dramatic language here regarding message board chatter. this is an open message board not a jury, not a court, you are free to share your opinion the same as everyone else. don't be surprised if you are called out for being uncouth. this isn't something ILX dug up in an effort to discredit somebody. we are reacting to widely publicized music news and on a board where ever single scrap of music gossip gets talked about to death. this should not be off limits.

dlp was threadbanned last night.

http://jezebel.com/is-this-the-end-of-the-era-of-the-important-inappropri-1765684275

Larkin features in this massive piece (reading it now)

Speaking strictly in terms of music, new SWANS album slated for June release, according to Young God Records.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka_hKb7dSiY

Speaking strictly in terms of music,

the longest "actually"

http://www.mtv.com/news/2941144/swans-2/

good piece

huh?

https://twitter.com/XiuXiuforLife/status/829442599031287812

yeah he was (thor, suspended from twitter, for some bullshit reason like that)

and also
https://younggodrecords.com/blogs/news/swans-announce-remastered-reissue-of-the-great-annihilator

I really like To Be Kind, as it turns out. Still trying to figure out if it's a tribute to Kurt Vonnegut and blues music.

The Seer always kind of fucked with my mood, tbh, but this one is just great. Especially "Bring the Sun/Toussaint L'Ouverture"

Or rather it sounds like their "blues" album in some parts maybe

The Great Annihilator/Drainland remaster is now out + this new limited edition (3000) 2CD live album: https://younggodrecords.com/collections/frontpage/products/deliquescence

wow, that discussion upthread sure died a quick death as soon as the handful of mildly dissenting voices were "threadbanned" shortly before this story just sorta fizzled out. There must be a lesson here, I know it, I just don't know what it is.

AFAIC it has not fizzled out.

When's that album she's doing to benefit abused women coming out Ned? Any day now, right? I hope she got the medical help she needed, and I mean that sincerely.

Matter of fact she does have a new album coming out in a few weeks. Which I've heard and is quite excellent. I can't speak to where any money might go.

Yes, she does indeed. A solo album tribute to Ornette Coleman. This is really a bus you want to get off of, I'd think in any normal world. The promo language is crazy, as expected, to the point where I can't even bring myself to get into it, and I have no real opinion on whether the music is good or not. I'm sure that a writer like yourself can ask about where the money might go. My guess: to Tony Visconti and to Larkin. Awaiting next threadban in 3-2-1...

You keep doing you, weirdos.

it's my birthday, so, fuck you

happy birthday karl!

thank you LL!

Happy birthday Karl!

I'm only posting so that the stupid "thread has unread messages" circle gets filled in

Thanks

(note: the functionality itself isn't stupid, it's my neurosis about deleted messages contributing to it)

hthttps://twitter.com/thorharris666/status/895767982089154564

Good news ! pic.twitter.com/YuE3UhfEmU

— thor harris (@thorharris666) August 10, 2017

preorder

https://younggodrecords.com/products/soundtracks-2018

I just saw Thor with that Israeli garage rock dude from Monotonix.

JUst reading Sacrifice and Transcendence which is great.

Gira comes across as not being a wonderful person to work for, more driven than fellow feeling.

& it has me wondering
where Virgil Moorefield came in. I just checked the line up of the Foetus band on Rife and it has Ted Parsons on it. I thought that was Foetus fronting the same band that had played as Swans in London that week.
& I've always had the heavy folk rock band I loved in '88 as being the same band as Children of God i.e. with Ted Parsons so am I remembering that wrong. Can't think how many times the band hit london that year. I remember seeing them in Edinburgh in '89 with Vinniwe Signorelli who went onto Unsane on drums. & I think I do recognise Virgil from somewhere.

ah well, great book which has had me wanting to read it continually. Love it.

Yes! I really enjoyed it too, the chain of events after he quit school and started travelling is insane.

As I recall it Ted Parsons left to do Prong full time after 1987, to be replaced by Virgil Moorefield for one tour in 1988. By the following tour it was Vincent Signorelli. Gira never was that great at holding a line-up together...

Rife was recorded at the Town & Country club during the same week that Butthole Surfers played the Brixton Academy, Harry Crews played the mean Fiddler and a couple of other things that I can't think of right now were on. I think that was '88.
I can't see credits on the live sets i have from that year. & it is 30 years ago. I did see that Rife seems to credit Ted, and i thought it was pretty much the same band playing behind 2 different singers. 1 as foetus Corruptus the other as Swans. THough of course jarboe waouldn't have been in both.
So am I remembering wrong.
I just sent a question to Ted Parsons so may get a clearer response.

According to Wikipedia, the band on Rife is Parsons, Algis Kizys, Norman Westberg and Raymond Watts - so all of the 1987-88 Swans lineup except Gira and Jarboe.

Male is the one which is Westberg/Kizys/Signorelli (plus David Ouimet from Cop Shoot Cop).

Michael gira can go fuck himself

He’s a rapist

To clarify I thought SWANS were among the bands that played London on that week in 88 or very close to it. So the same band performed under 2 different names in the same time frame, behind 2 different singers. Shame that neither Swans or Foetus are on Fromthearchives or I'd have a better picture for when people came and went.
I've had Parsons in my head as the drummer on some music I've remembered as pretty sublime for 3 decades. & only came across Virgil Moorefield as part of the puicture since reading Sacrifice and Transcendence.

& I've been thinking for years that T&C performance by Foetus = Rife. Now not getting a definite confirmation. Only seeing recorded in Europe in 1988 & assuming that London is in Europe to a US artist, not specifically England.

It's very likely that he borrowed Swans, as up to that point live performances were vanishingly rare and mostly consisted of tapes (see interviews with Thirlwell here and here).

i saw Swans at Town & Country round then, possibly that very show -- p sure i can trace my now-persistent tinnitus to it also, i was literally deaf for two or threw hours after >:(

I think the Town & Country show that was seriously loud was on the '87 tour. I think the Sex God Sex on Feel Good Now is from it.

THought it was pretty awesome. I actually stuck my head in the loudspeaker at the Birmingham show in the same run.
I think my hearing is ok.