Swans: Classic or Dud?

xp nah, she loves me more than the Beatles

Definitely classic, bro. And they became more classic with time. Check their last three albums for proof.

lol

My only impressions of this band are based on Cop.

idk if Alex in NYC is still reading (sent him a PM) but sorry bro and sorry thraed.

Got your message. Appreciated. No harm done. This thread had/has emotions running high. It happens. Likewise, if my line of questioning upset anyone (some folks unfriended me on Facebook, presumably as a result). I apologize.

I just wanted to take another opportunity to do some apologizing here. I was reading this thread in a somewhat piecemeal manner, and also addressing a lot of it in much the same way one approaches threads about trivial bullshit. The story is still hugely upsetting and it's got a long way to go before all the facts shake out. But that doesn't excuse being flippant, dickish, pedantic and/or disrespectful regarding the core issue, and I feel like I may have been creating that impression, and for that I sincerely apologize to those I have offended. Obviously, as a devout SWANS fan, I don't *WANT* any of this to be true (no one does), but regardless, that doesn't excuse being insensitive, obstinate, or pig-headedly selective about the bits of the narrative I choose to read.

I am sorry. I promise, I am not a callous asshole. Please forgive me.

You are a fan its cool. Just say Classic or dud and why.

http://www.vidaweb.org/statements-against-silence/

plenty of testimonials against thomas sayers ellis. whereas i can understand larkin's compassion for gira - there wasn't a straight-up malicious intention to his acts - TSE sounds like someone who gets off on degrading women.

I'm eagerly awaiting the page full of anonymous complaints against Margaret Morris.

Was it Andy Warhol who said, "In the future, everyone will be blessed with a page full of anonymous accusations on the internet for fifteen minutes."

I still have absolutely no idea what happened, but the above linked page is just garbage.

omg shut up, you dumb idiot try hard.

Maybe I should just have my dome cracked. This thread is really something.

maybe they should rename this thread to something secret and obscure and let everybody but dlp9001 and Wimmers know what it is.

oh wait Wimmels is t-banned

Rename it, "We know he's guilty because we know" and have a blast.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xu1rPrOs0xIR2/giphy.gif

self-immolating on the internet would be even more impressive if you weren't disguised as a licence plate

nothing you just said has anything to do with the lunkheaded mra type of dismissal of a bunch of victims + an entirely unfunny drama club humor type made up warhol quote joke smh kill yourself, dude.

Anonymous Comments in an Empty Room. We can really do better. I'm still kind of in favor of, um, waiting for something vaguely factual. I know that's crazy. Carry on.

this is like the worst of bad looks

so basically you want signed affidavits made in the presence of police officers?

would be amazed if you demanded such 'evidence' for other things people said to you.

"sorry honey, I can't console you about the bullying you went through at school until I've done my thorough interview first"

I know it's crazy talk around here, but I'd like to wait and see what people have to say before condemning someone based on a Facebook comment.

as you have established this point, perhaps it might be best to leave this thread behind for now?

You're probably right. I actually think that might be true for everyone.

they're anonymous bc no woman wants to go through what larkin is going through, what cosby's victims are going through, what kesha is going through.

no woman wants her whole life viewed through a lying-whore filter.

no woman wants to go through bodily violations that leave her struggling to get past the damage, only to be told none of it happened and that no one believes her.

and citing the old replace-female-accuser-with-male-accused-and-seewhatididthere! is a false equivalency, which you would know unless you live under a rock.

You're probably right. I actually think that might be true for everyone.

― dlp9001, Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

man fuck you with your thread policing shit, repeating the same damn inane shit over and over even after ten or more others have clearly elucidated their viewpoints and you've essentially just ignored them.

we've already heard what ppl have to say, and there wasn't just a single throwaway fb comment. this isn't going through the courts bc larkin is interested in the greater good for both men and women, and is sacrificing getting her own justice. all she is asking anybody is think about consent, and to speak up if you witness a lack of it.

I think Larkin said it better. "I am only speaking of it now because after being accused of “lynching” Thomas, I cannot ethically keep Michael’s secret any longer. He’s a white guy, and his crime was far worse than what Thomas did to me or Margaret."

I'd like to think that a board that I've been on for ten? fifteen? I can't recall. Years, would have the ability to actually wait and get a sense of what happened in a complicated situation before throwing someone under the bus. As noted, I'm not on the Kim Fowley or Dr. Luke (or Beatles, let's be honest) threads making a fuss.

Those TSE stories have a whole lot of odd, extremely specific details in them to be made up

All sorts of people have been (falsely) convicted based on statements that seemed to make sense based on compelling details. I'm not a Gira apologist, I have no idea what happened, but this isn't the place for amateur sleuthing.

Dude, I'm probably closer to your position than almost anyone posting in this thread and I'm begging you to shut the fuck up and go do something else with your time.

we have a really good idea what happened bc larkin told us exactly what went down. it's not complicated at all. there is consent, and there is absence of consent.

I don't like the "shut the fuck up" language, but do appreciate that we're not going anywhere again. Wishing for another thread hiatus until something reasonably concrete actually happens.

yes, take one

btw why in the world would someone (let alone a bunch of ppl) levy a false anonymous accusation against a person who as far as i can gather is a marginally notable public figure if you happen to move in certain literary and academic circles? what would be gained?

Respect to dlp, no respect to the "kill yourself dlp"s. dlp: I get that this is a threatening situation because accepting Larkin's, Gira's, everyone else's statements as facts puts yourself (and myself and everybody) on a shaky platform of the ambiguity and impetuousness of public opinion, like, "oh gee, so anybody can make a Facebook post saying 'fgti is a rapist' and I just have to deal with that?" I just ask that you put aside phrases like "throwing somebody under the bus" because what is actually going on here is a recognition of an everyday, nearly-commonplace act, of people getting drunk and ignoring consent. It doesn't hurt Gira to say "he raped Larkin"-- rape is a broad term and applies here, but that doesn't make him Jared Fogle. Note that Larkin is not asking for legal recourse, or even accountability. She is asking for understanding. We can accept in equal terms that Larkin claims the sex was non-consensual, and Gira's assertion that it was a "regrettable mistake". We can add into the mix that other sources claim that Larkin is "crazy" and accept that, and have sympathy for her mental state, without letting it determine whether or not she has the ability to recognize when consent is given. The problem with your stance of "let's see the facts" is that it literally serves no purpose. Our culture, on the legal and societal spectrum, does not favour the victims, beyond a rape kit, factually proving a rape is terrifically difficult, and you have an opportunity here to accept all possible truths, believe everybody's point of view. Your only bad direction here is viewing things as black-and-white, that you need Proof! and Facts! you don't need these things. You don't need a notarized document or a police report to read Larkin's story, believe her, read the responses, believe them, and alter your own behaviour, and allow these events to prepare and strengthen yourself for the future sexual abuse of yourself and your family members, either as perpetrators or victims.

standing O ^^^^^^^

thanks fgti, your input here has been great.

dlp you emailed me offboard about some things you went through IRL that relate to this, not gonna go into specifics but someone did lie about you and it went to court and you were the injured party and it sucked. I hope that's vague enough. please, please consider that your personal experiences may be preventing you from seeing the situation in this thread with full clarity. as I said to you offboard, you are a better person (and poster) than this.

but hey, maybe Jon is right and I've only ever interacted with you around music, but we've known each other online for over a decade and I'd really like to think of you as more than some MRA clone.

the above linked page is just garbage.

― dlp9001, Thursday, March 10, 2016 5:06 PM (4 hours ago)

not seeing anything in the vidaweb page that inclines me to sweepingly dismiss the assembled accounts as "garbage". do they definitively prove anything? no. but they are fairly compelling when taken as a whole.

i half want to support your ostensible agnosticism, but your rush to mock, judge and discard women's testimony smacks of something much less intellectually defensible.

i like how this thread is going on seemingly forever

i think it's worth thinking about the fact that dlp and pretty much everyone else on this thread are all posting in relative anonymity with no real names attached. Would you be making the same posts if your government name were attached to them and other people, many whom you don't know, could just link to them and share them willy-nilly? I know I probably would change the way (and amount) I post if that were the case. Then think about that in the context of someone who was sexually assaulted by a famous person, or at least someone more well-known and admired than you.

i half want to support your ostensible agnosticism, but your rush to mock, judge and discard women's testimony smacks of something much less intellectually defensible.

sorry if in irl you got screwed over by a liar. but let me tell you something. i have friends that had this happen to them in real life and have seen them struggle w it over the years and the uphill battle they faced was no joke so fuck you dlp.

also nobody is "throwing him under a bus" nobody is "condemning him" so plz w the dramatic language here regarding message board chatter. this is an open message board not a jury, not a court, you are free to share your opinion the same as everyone else. don't be surprised if you are called out for being uncouth. this isn't something ILX dug up in an effort to discredit somebody. we are reacting to widely publicized music news and on a board where ever single scrap of music gossip gets talked about to death. this should not be off limits.

dlp was threadbanned last night.

http://jezebel.com/is-this-the-end-of-the-era-of-the-important-inappropri-1765684275

Larkin features in this massive piece (reading it now)

Speaking strictly in terms of music, new SWANS album slated for June release, according to Young God Records.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka_hKb7dSiY

Speaking strictly in terms of music,

the longest "actually"

http://www.mtv.com/news/2941144/swans-2/

good piece

huh?

https://twitter.com/XiuXiuforLife/status/829442599031287812