Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

ahahah oh god i forgot that the DOG was the murderer in that one

Season 2 of TNG was when the Writer's Strike hit, right?

xxp I was just sad that more wasn't made of Riker and Worf getting probed, though the disappointment was off-set by the Data poetry reading and Worf getting a haircut and nearly murdering the (admittedly annoying) barber.

I've been watching Voyager from the beginning over the last some months, and tbh I like it more than I ever did seeing it in bits and pieces on TV. There's at least something of a storyline. The technobabble and "hoopla, we magically fixed this dire situation within one episode" thing grates, but every Trek series does this, so cant complain there.

Its been said before, but "The Gift", where Kes goes all psionic and "becomes" and disappears, was a straightup ripoff of "Mind War" from S1 of Babylon 5.

Babylon whatnow?

i don't think I have it in me to do a full watch through of Voyager right after finishing ds9 but i do want to hit some of the highlights whatever those may be

Its patchy, which everyone's said above (if not outright panned it, which.. eh? Its no better or worse than any other series).

Leeee: I am assuming yr kidding.

Its no better or worse than any other series

...

Any other trek series I meant, in the sense they all use technobabble, they all solve dire situations neatly within an episode (mostly, borg shit aside), they all have pretty camp OTT acting...

Dont think this is me knocking the show! But I do think Bab5 did long form storytelling and drama WAY better (sadly this gets lost on many people cos they go "ewww the effects look so dated")

Voyager is probably better than Enterprise! I don't know for sure, I didn't watch Enterprise.

There are probably like 10 good Voyager episodes, "The Thaw", the first Species 8172 two parter, and a bunch of Doc/7 stories.

a blank screen is better than Enterprise

xp

there isn't actually a lot of technobabble in tos. the occasional remark about shield fluctuations sure and lots of aliens with strange properties spock affects in the third act to fully understand, but nothing like the every-single-episode scene in tng where geordie and someone else recommend absolute nonsense to each other for like ten minutes until the episode's token peril is resolved. i'm not even sure tos (show not movies) has "dilithium" in it, tho i've probably just forgotten its appearances in the later episodes (for a while it's just lithium).

there is the occasional disaster of an episode like "the lazarus effect" where people do talk like geordie.

^^^

you guys have weirdly selective memories about TOS afaict

technobabble rot set in w TNG, where they would literally dick around for an entire episode before resolving the core conflict with a bunch of made up words

another garbage star trek movie coming out

the writer of Spaced / Shaun Of The Dead and the director of Community's paintball episode / Fast Five = the first Star Trek movie I might see in over two decades

I'm holding out hope it's better than the last one. It def has a better writer

The first reboot movie is okay! The second... is not.

Completely onboard participating in a Star Trek poll, in whatever form it takes shape. A top episodes poll would be good, with a separate vote for best series. Would be interesting to see how the best series votes compare with a derived ranking from the series' showings in the episodes poll.

Seems like 5 people is enough for the poll! Should the deadline be a month from whenever I (or if someone else wants to curate this, they) start the thread?

I should see if the dudes who made a list of essential/reasonable DS9 episodes did a Voyager guide. I rewatched a bunch of episodes last month and could make recommendations. There are some odd trend that set in, and the mid/late-seasons have a better hit rate than the earlier ones. Poor Harry Kim isn't allowed to find romance unless it's with a member of an alien race that hates outsiders or it's with a woman who is about to die (or died!). Poor Harry.

There's a very wtf episode where the doctor has to hide his program in Seven of Nine's borg implants and takes over her personality, leading to some creepy romantic tension when he uses her body in questionable ways that verges on being, or very much is, exploitative

I'm only up to where she first comes in the show (tho ive seen later eps before) and my bf is well pleased, because all he was waiting on was "Sevens cracking knockers". Sigh.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek_101

VOY:
"Caretaker"
"Flashback"
"Scorpion" & "Scorpion, Part II"
"Year of Hell" & "Year of Hell, Part II"
"Timeless"
"Bride of Chaotica!"
"Dark Frontier"
"Relativity"
"Blink of an Eye"
"Endgame"

I'd add Distant Origin.

Voyager grew on me. Dreadfully boring for stretches, but had some real gems.

"Sevens cracking knockers".

straya

there is the occasional disaster of an episode like "the lazarus effect" where people do talk like geordie.

― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, March 1, 2016 3:30 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what i meant here was "the alternative factor", which features a guy named lazarus and ends with kirk saying "but what of lazarus? what... of lazarus?" as if it means something. (metaphysical technobabble.) "the lazarus effect" is a movie i read the plot of last night while researching olivia wilde's filmography on wikipedia.

there are a lot of great non-campy performances in the original series imo

obv the acting style is very different, but i dunno i associate "campy" with something like the adam west batman, not someone like shatner who's deeply committed to everything he does (or at least did in his heyday). don't really think any of the other leads are campy either.

I'd also add to that voyager list "The Thaw", and the Futures End double just for all the lolworthy 90s shit and Sarah Silverman appearance.

Oh! And Blood Fever, only because I had no idea that was wholesale the plot of that Futurama episode where Zoidberg goes to his home planet and does KLAWFLARGH with the other lobster guy.

xxp often quite strong supporting roles too -- montalban obviously; mark lenard as the romulan captain in "balance of terror"; arnold moss as KODOS THE EXECUTIONER; might get scoffed at for this but i think the woman (barbara luna, it says here) who plays terran empire kirk's lover and co-machinator in "mirror mirror" is allowed room to give a surprisingly serious performance for a woman wearing a belly shirt in a star trek tos episode.

i also like harry mudd but that might be camp.

enjoying this tng episode where riker's enterprise life may be a delusion, after being v caustic (to nobody, but out loud) about this cliche as rendered in the netflix synopsis. maybe because it's about being in a play. i also liked the buffy episode with this plot.

also every time riker yells "I'M NOT CRAZY!!!" i yell "YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S CRAZY!!!" and it hasn't stopped amusing me yet

i associate "campy" with something like the adam west batman, not someone like shatner who's deeply committed to everything he does (or at least did in his heyday).

Our definitions of camp are close to precisely opposite! They must've got mixed up in the transporter.

JUST ONE PEPSI, AND NEELIX WOULDNT GIVE IT TO ME

I went to YOUR academies, I went to ...

enjoying this tng episode where riker's enterprise life may be a delusion

Far and away the finest of the tng headfuck episodes.

I dunno, I prefer the one where everyone loses their memory and they have to figure out what their position on the ships, and there's a mysterious new officer among them that everyobe assumes was always there. Or the one where everyone keeps disappearing until Dr. Crusher is the only one left on board. And I guess "The Inner Light" sorta counts as an headfuck episode too?

The "Riker's life wasn't real" episode was very well done, but the mystery part didn't really work, because of course they're gonna reveal that the parts in the mental hospital were the real delusion, not the parts on Enterprise. They weren't just gonna suddenly erase all 6 years of the series. Some of those other headfuck episodes are more fun to watch, because you genuinely don't know what's going on and where it's all gonna lead.

Suspension of disbelief, have you tried it? The Dr Crusher one ('Remember Me') is excellent though - I did make a list of about ten headfuck episodes somewhere...

The O'Brian spending like 20 years in captivity, Hard Time is a good one. Poor O'Brian.

because of course they're gonna reveal that the parts in the mental hospital were the real delusion

Well, the central question of those episodes (see also "Tapestry") is never "Is this real?" but "How's s/he going to get out of it?" And because we really like the characters, we really want to see them succeed.

Like, it's never in doubt Columbo will find the murderer - how he's going to work it out is the real point of tension.

What about that third season episode when Columbo was shot in the face and killed? It seemed like all bets were off after that.

because of course they're gonna reveal that the parts in the mental hospital were the real delusion

Well, the central question of those episodes (see also "Tapestry") is never "Is this real?" but "How's s/he going to get out of it?"

Sure sure, but IIRC most of the episode was spent on Riker wondering whether or not he was really in a mental hospital, and when he figures out the hospital fake, he just wakes tied to some simulation machine, and the episode is over soon after that. So the "how's he going to get out of it?" part wasn't very imaginative either.

the part i like most about that riker episode is the superfluous sexytime scene.

you guys should watch the buffy reality switch episode that was mentioned. it's in season 6 and it's called "normal again".

for the record i think the buffy episode is hugely better, richer, smarter, in some ways a parable for the effect of depression on your loved ones, and unlike the tng episode it ends in ambiguity.

i liked that Buffy ending but similarly it's kind of a cheap shot since duh we know Buffy is in its sixth season at this point
also not a small chance it was inspired by that TNG episode