Swans: Classic or Dud?

part of their appeal that they make you laugh in the end

Yeah, I don't see this happening at all.

I believe this was the second ever thread I contributed to, back in the day (when the earth was young and the seas were hot and the skies were filled with pteradactyles).

SWANS were untouchably brilliant and will always remain so. But GOTHS they are not. Not in the slightest. And I know two ex-Swans who would happily bludgeon anyone who dared refer to them as such.

i always thought swans were funny. and they are one of my favorite bands. in my top four anyway. when i first got internet in 1999 i joined a swans list and i confessed that i always thought that the song failure was really funny. i expected to get yelled at. but nobody yelled. and jarboe agreed that lots of swans had very dry humor too it, but that a lot of people didn't see it. or didn't want to see it. and if you ever went to a swans show you would see these deadly serious fans. they were the ones who loked like the memebers of controlled bleeding. they weren't in it for the funny.

Were Live Skull goths?

x-post

LOTS of goths love swans though. that's why the two get connected. and goths LOVE world of skin and angels of light and jarboe too.

no, live skull were not goths.

or didn't want to see it.

or actually didn't think it was funny maybe - you have to allow for that.

and they were a HUGE influence on goth bands. just as they were on metal bands and all kinds of bands. i like to call swans "traditional folk music".

yeah, i mean, you might think that public castration is a good idea is a funny album title or you might just think that public castration is a good idea. too each his own.

Swans from Circus Mort to Cop is absolutely classic. It's sad the CD versions of Filth and the eponymous EP were remastered so badly, but they're still worth getting.

could you elaborate a bit? Not that I plan on replacing my vinyl, but I'm curious as to what went wrong. Is this also true of the Cop and Children Of God remasters?

Scott's right, it's because lots of goths like Swans that they get tagged that way.

The remasters are cleaned up with reverb added and EQ bent toward the ends. If you've heard original Teenage Jesus or Mars vinyl and compared it to the CDs of the same, it's a similar effect, although not quite as reverb-chamber-in-hell as it is on the TJ remasters.

I don't know whether the Cop remaster has a similar issue, since I don't have it, and I'm not sure whether I have a remastered or original Children of God.

Thanks. That TJ&TJ remaster gets my vote for "worst job ever", so I'll steer clear of the Filth CD.

which version of filth is supposed to have this problem? the single cd jewelcase one from a long time ago or the somewhat more recent 2cd reissue?

Here's 25 seconds of a track from the Filth/body to body, job to job double CD:

http://rapidshare.com/files/33942016/filth_reissue_-_06_-_Right_Wrong__25_second_clip_.mp3.html

hope this helps?

Live Skull were VERY decidedly NOT goths. Hurrumph!

I have the Zensor vinyl version of 'Filth' - always thought it was meant to sound, well, filthy. What would/does cleaning it up reveal - the melodies?

Alex, they had a heavy goth streak

just because it's really really good doesn't mean it's not goth man

which version of filth is supposed to have this problem?

My CD from around 1990 is poorly-mastered. I dunno about any later versions.

Would it really be SO bad if your favorite band turned around and said "Yeah, actually, we were always Goths. At the end of the night, it was always all about getting with those Siouxsie clones. So kill us. The records are still OK though? Aren't they? Aren't they?"

Alex, they had a heavy goth streak

Live Skull? No they fucking didn't.

Look, I LOVE a lot of unapologetically Goth bands -- from Alien Sex Fiend through Theatre of Hate through the Mission through Fields of the Nephilim -- but the fact remains that Live Skull and SWANS simply WERE NOT members of that flock.

Well, at the time, goths sure as hell wanted nothing to do with Swans. This is true. It'd be more apt to call the Misfits goth, 'cause they were loved by every goth in (my) town.

ANYWAY.

i confessed that i always thought that the song failure was really funny.

One of my favorite Swans moments ever -- I'm DJing at KUCI during my grad school years and someone calls me up during finals week or just thereafter. Turns out it's another grad on campus, like me a TA. He goes, "I've been looking at all these student papers and I have a request -- can you play the Swans' "Failure" for them?" And so I did, and I would have also bought him a drink if I could.

As soon as Jarboe joined Swans (the Time Is Money 12") it became fair to call them goth. If you saw them during the Jarboe period you know that was a proper goth throwdown.

Snuffer counts as goth. However, the only evidence I can offer for this proposition is "it sure seemed goth to me at the time, and that is in fact why I bought it."

it became fair to call them goth

If by "fair" you mean "abjectly wrong," then yes.

ilm must've wandered into a wormhole, this is like 2005 all over again

Did anyone else there at the time refer to Swans as "tribal"? Swans, Savage Repubic, (new EP is good BTW), Test Dept, anything with a bunch of blunt percussion we called tribal, tribal industrial. In Pittsburgh, circa 86-89.

Alex I'm older than you, don't make me come over there

Or to be more exact: circa 1985 on the west coast, there was not a goth that lived and breathed who didn't love or at least respect Swans. Their audience was largely goth (still "death rock" in some quarters) people, and industrial lovers who were more or less goths without so much makeup, and some punks. Your crowd defines you, to some extent. Certainly Swans are nothing like Fields of the Nephilim. But their lyrical themes, their relentless darkness, and THAT WOMAN WITH THE GOTH-ASS MAKEUP YOWLING ABOUT THE YUM-YAB KILLERS OR WHATEVER makes them goth whether one likes it or not.

Ah, west coast.

Alex I'm older than you, don't make me come over there

You're older than 39? Bring it on, old man.

Oh, god...old men fighting about what is goth...

OH!! Will you two wear black lipstick and long black trench coats???? Oow. That would be interesting....

guys I totally support the sudden surge of goths on ILX, keep it up 2007

Aja, that's just a FAP invitation.

Um...I feel stupid...what is FAP?...I know I learned this like 2 years ago, but I don't remember what it means....

*Blushes*

"Fancy A Pint" but I don't think the pints are required, it's just a generic term for irl meetings of ILXors.

Ok. Now I remember.

Yes, pints would be appropriate I guess. But I want to watch too...Can I have a Roy Rodgers?

*chuckling trying to imagine Alex in black lipstick*

HAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alex in black lipstick and with EYELINER!

guys I feel like this is an appropriate time to mention that "fap" has never meant anything to me other than the sound of masturbation

Well I've always felt the appeal of the term is that it does also call to mind that meaning. It's a double entendre, and I'm sure many jokes have already been made about it here.

yeah

it was really weird and off-putting for me at first, though, like moving to some foreign land where everyone referred to cars as "cunts" and thought nothing of it

WAHT IS THE HEN FLAP AND WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP ASKING FOR IT???

Wait..."Hen Fap" I've heard that before. What does it mean?

It's the name of the server ILX runs on. Nothing more. Now go about yr bidness, citizen.

Hahah! I see! The things you learn!

LOL @ Ned's story. Once I requested "Raping A Slave" on my hometown college station because it took me forever to find that EP, and after the DJ played it he said "Well, my girlfriend has called me to demand that I never play that song again".

I have so much to say on the topic that it's tempting to say nothing.

as a college dj I did a 3 hour swans show. at one point some guy called up and said "I'm going to come up there and kill you" and then started laughing hysterically. so I got on the mic and dedicated "coward" to him. he didn't call back (or show up, obv).

around '99 gira was selling the master tapes to the labor e.p. on his website. wonder if that's why it hasn't been remastered.