Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

Voyager, like every Star Trek series from tng on, starts out lame and becomes awesome by a couple of seasons in. You'll enjoy yourself tremendously.

*yes even Enterprise eventually finds its footing IMO

but... Space Bush

I just can't accept that Bakula's Dubya impression ever became tolerable

When was Voyager ever awesome????

It had its moments.

http://www.seeing-stars.com/Locations/Voyager/PhaserBattleOutsideObservatory2.jpg

lol

Basically once they get around to digital doctor and 7 of 9 being the center of the show, I enjoy the hell out of it.

Somewhere online an autistic adult commented how much 7 of 9 meant to them when they were younger, how much they identified with the character. Reading that was a huge aha moment for me and made me love that character.

I gave up on Voyager about four seasons in as it aired originally. Remember it having some really cool 2-parters and one-off concept episodes but the characters were so weak compared to Next Gen and DS9. Caught reruns of the later seasons much later - the show did get better, not enough to give me any regrets though

the episode that made me give up on voyager was "Threshold" from season 2, where they go to warp 10 and turn into lizards. it's the ultimate Braga episode.

wait, bakula is space dubya? i thought the other guy was space dubya!

now he is, thanks to tom cruise, apparently?
http://i.imgur.com/Z5PbgPf.png

On Halloween, I encountered a drag 7 of 9 attending a party in another section of the dim sum place we were eating dinner. It made my night.

I thought Nicole de Boer did a fine job as Ezri (and she was also awesome hamming it up as the Mirror Universe Goth Ezri), and the concept of the new host trying to come in terms with the life of the previous host, such as the marriage to Worf, did provide some interesting fodder for good sci-fi stories. The main problem was that she came in way too late... One season wasn't enough to really develop the character and her relations with Jadzia's friends, and the final hookup with Bashir was totally artificial and contrived, it felt like the writers just wanted to tie up romantic loose ends by the finale, even ones that that didn't really need tying up.

But objectively there was nothing wrong with de Boer/Ezri, I think people just hated her because she wasn't Terry Farrell/Jadzia. Which I thought was actually a good choice, because bringing in a carbon copy as a replacement character is a lazy solution TV writers often revert to, so it was much more interesting that Ezri was way different from Jadzia both mentally (nervous and self-doubting instead of cocky and relaxed) and physically (small and cute instead of tall and amazonian).

the episode that made me give up on voyager was "Threshold" from season 2, where they go to warp 10 and turn into lizards. it's the ultimate Braga episode.

I've seen this one too, and I think it's usually considered to be the very worst episode in all of Star Trek... With the clip show finale of TNG's second season as a close contender, though that one at least is just lazy instead of actively insulting. Besides Braga's utterly unscientific pet peeve subject of de-evolution, it also pointlessly breaks one of the major rules of ST universe (Warp 10 is a theoretical maximum speed and not really attainable) and ends with an inexplicable loose end: what happened to Janeaway's and Paris's lizard kids? Even though they weren't themselves when the kids were conceived, you'd think they'd have at least some interest in finding them? But apparently not.

"Treshold" is also offensively stupid because it provides the Voyager crew a way to return home that they simply won't use. Okay, going beyond Warp 10 reverts humans to lizards, but the Doctor can cure this, and the Doctor himself obviously isn't affected by this devolution. So why not just go beyond Warp 10, fly the Voyager to Alpha Quadrant, and then have the Doctor cure everyone? Or, if it's too much for one holographic doctor, have him contact Starfleet and tell them how the reverse the devolution process?

Voyager had some great episodes, but I never grew to like any of the characters. Some of the fun sci-fi concept stories were the best - future museum, evolved dinosaurs, guy messing around with timelines, planet moving in fast-forward, and one particularly polarising episode with a sinister clown AI. Love that ep.

But I think the writers could have put more effort into creating new enemies, rather than recycling the Borg to ever-diminishing returns, and could have come up with something better than those shameless Predator rip-offs. A lot of potential in the series was squandered IMO.

I'll echo what Captain Rosie said about DS9 - the recurring characters were the highlight of the show, more so than most of the main cast. The Cardassians, Klingons, Ferangi and even Kai Winn and that smug Vorta. Almost everyone seems to think the show kept getting better as it went along, but I thought seasons 3-5 were the best (much like TNG), and the I remember the last two being pretty disappointing.

Used to edit a Star Trek mag and once went to lunch w/ Nicole de Boer. Very pleasant company, main thing I remember is that she was looking out for a copy of the Dickies first album for her bf/partner/husband. I directed her to the Music and Video Exchange in Notting Hill.

How can I get your job Ward? Imagine hanging out w/Nicole De Boer @ Music and Video Exchange in Notting Hill.

Basically once they get around to digital doctor and 7 of 9 being the center of the show, I enjoy the hell out of it.

otm

What season does this happen in? Because I did try watching Voyager for the first two seasons, hoping it'd get better with time like TNG and DS9 did, but in the end the mediocrity of the plots and the uninteresting characters were too much, I didn't make it to season 3.

Almost everyone seems to think the show kept getting better as it went along, but I thought seasons 3-5 were the best (much like TNG), and the I remember the last two being pretty disappointing.

I don't think anyone really thinks the last two are as good as the middle seasons? The Dominion war arc gets a pretty good closure, but season 6 introduces the stupid supernatural Prophet/Pah-Wraith conflict, and season 7 gives it way more space than it deserves, tying the whole life of Sisko into it, culminating with the awful final battle in the caves that marrs what would otherwise have been a decent series finale. I've never come across any fans who actually like that subplot, I think most people agree this kind of "good vs. evil" fantasy plot has no place in Star Trek.

Happens in later seasons. And indeed, Voyager does get really going in later seasons although the Clown AI is iirc from one of the earlier ones and 'establishes' Janeway in my head.

Besides the Original series Voyager is by far the best one. Didn't care for DS9 and any wars. Next Gen is too much like a re-thread (Data aside). Having the Borg as the main enemy is good enough for me and the whole story arc of trying to wing it and survive in unfamiliar lands drew me in.

Then again I like Odyssey much more than Illiad. xp

DS9 and Voyager as Iliad and Odyssey never occurred to me but I like the concept

I keep reading that the last 7-8 episodes of DS9 are the Best Trek Ever - is that exaggeration, then?

That was going to be my motivation for slogging through the lot (once I've finished rewatching TNG).

I don't think anyone really thinks the last two are as good as the middle seasons? The Dominion war arc gets a pretty good closure, but season 6 introduces the stupid supernatural Prophet/Pah-Wraith conflict, and season 7 gives it way more space than it deserves, tying the whole life of Sisko into it, culminating with the awful final battle in the caves that marrs what would otherwise have been a decent series finale. I've never come across any fans who actually like that subplot, I think most people agree this kind of "good vs. evil" fantasy plot has no place in Star Trek.

I agree that the prophet/pah-wraith thing was pretty bad for the most part, though I did enjoy the episode where Kira and Jake were possessed! I just felt that DS9 had the potential to become something truly great in the end, but instead it just seemed to fizzle out. Even a lot of the space battle scenes in the final episode were recycled from previous ones in the series!

there's a very strange episode about historical revisionism where the doctor is activated after centuries by a culture that blames voyager for some political atrocity, but it curves back in on itself because there doesn't seem to be any way that this episode could have happened, because the doctor wasn't separated from voyager, and it isn't a parallel timeline or anything weird like that.

I know this is a very late reply, but the future aliens in that episode re-created the Doctor from a back-up programme, which had been stored on Voyager tech which was stolen from them when they interacted with the aliens. So the re-created Doctor would only have memories up to that point.

xp most all of the major story arc of DS9 is great, which concludes with that sequence but also includes several excellent 2-parters in earlier seasons and a 6-parter in season 6. definitely the most prescient star trek in predicting the modern trend towards heavily serialized television

it's certainly been a long road getting from there to here

― Philip Nunez

It's been a long time
But my time is finally near

What season does this happen in? Because I did try watching Voyager for the first two seasons, hoping it'd get better with time like TNG and DS9 did, but in the end the mediocrity of the plots and the uninteresting characters were too much, I didn't make it to season 3.

7 shows up in I believe season 4. The 7/Doctor focused episodes are easily the best, and usually the only good episodes in a given season, but they always felt like a crutch ("Uh guys, we can't write another space lizards episodes, so let's do 7/Doctor again"), and just about every other episode stunk.

"The Thaw" (AI clown) is genuinely great and creepy though, and some of the Voyager Borg episodes are good too, but there's just so much garbage to wade through.

I keep reading that the last 7-8 episodes of DS9 are the Best Trek Ever - is that exaggeration, then?

Yes, total exaggeration.

It is to me.

DS9 season 6 is the best imo, at least up through "In the Pale Moonlight", after that high point you get a bunch of crap like the kira/odo romance and the quark crossdressing episode

it's been a while, but i do remember 6 being great overall, 7 having some really great long-term arc stuff that was undermined by the Pah Wraith junk

also i had to compare to season 7 of TNG which was pretty boring

Season 6 is generally excellent, but I recall seasons 3-5 feeling the most inventive and interesting. Most of what kept me drawn to the show toward the end were the character arcs that had been established long before. Season 7 is better than its TNG analog, but feels a little half-baked. The 10-episode run that rounds out the show is great barring Pah Wraith stuff (which is mostly just disappointing in its simplicity, and never unwatchable).

For DS9 season 7, a disappointing ending doesn't detract from the greater body of work for me. Just like the latter seasons of BSG didn't bother me that much as it did certain people in this thread.

When I rewatched all of DS9 last year, I was underwhelmed with its final arc even ignoring the stupid cave scene. I think the limits of UPN/broadcast syndication kept it from being as 'ardcore as something like BSG would become. Maybe everything got compressed, story points moved too quickly?

yeah even so, there's tons of great individual episodes of DS9 too. my personal favorite, "Necessary Evil", is from season 2 before the show even really hit its stride consistency-wise

Oh I love DS9, I just feel that it peters out at its end.

Dud

Watched the Shatner ST:TNG documentary "chaos on the bridge" last night. hokily made but had no idea about the power struggles and dissent on TNG's first few seasons. Ultimately a very interesting lesson in the way fraught circumstances and genesis can still create a successful work.

yup, it's pretty good! definitely worthwhile.
also god the Shatner cheese whenever he says "the power.. THE POWER"

Just saw the (first?) Barclay episode from season 3. Wow. So weird! Reminded me of "Homer's Enemy" where you have a 'normal' person enter this fantastical world they just can't seem to follow the rules. At first I thought the episode was going to be about him as a spy/traitor, then I thought it was going to be about depression/self-esteem. Then it almost seemed like it was saying something about addiction, using the holodeck as an analog for video games or fantasy culture. Then it just sort of resolves itself and has that weird ending. Kinda creepy.

Wait til you get to Geordi's holodeck lover episode and its follow-up, those are supremely creepy. Especially because, unlike with that Barclay ep, the writers don't even seem to realize Geordi's being a creep.

I love Barclay. Great character, especially his first several stories.

xp I thought the second episode was totally a response to his creepiness

Yeah Barclay is a great character. After reading a bit on it, it makes sense as a slight nod towards Trekkies. I did see the Geordi holodeck episode, which was pretty damn weird. At least that sort of made sense with him needing to reverse engineer the ship. Barclay's holodecking just seems to make things more difficult for him: he even says the false versions of his crewmates feel more real than real life.

What was weirdest was at the end of the episode, Barclay is deleting his programs but he saves one. Do they ever reveal what that program was, or is it a mystery?

The rest of season 3 is really good too! Data fighting for his life, space Jesus getting Geordi laid, and that The awesome Borg battle ending. Definitely a step up from TNG Seasons 1/2.

But they _had_ an episode on addiction to video games! Sorta.

yup, "classic" Riker ep

Shatner has a book coming out titled Leonard. It's not about Death of a Ladies Man.

this should make some people happy

http://deadline.com/2016/02/star-trek-tv-series-bryan-fuller-showrunner-cbs-1201698956/

Bryan Fuller, who started his writing career with the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager TV series, is coming full circle, returning to the television franchise as co-creator and executive producer of the new CBS Star Trek series, slated to launch in 2017. The new gig fulfills a long-time dream for Fuller, who has stated repeatedly over the years that he would love to created a new Star Trek series, and comes during the year that marks the franchise’s 50th anniversary.

Star Trek “My very first experience of Star Trek is my oldest brother turning off all the lights in the house and flying his model of a D7 Class Klingon Battle Cruiser through the darkened halls. Before seeing a frame of the television series, the Star Trek universe lit my imagination on fire,” said Fuller. “It is without exaggeration a dream come true to be crafting a brand new iteration of Star Trek with fellow franchise alum Alex Kurtzman and boldly going where no Star Trek series has gone before.”

Shepherded by Kurtzman, who will serve as executive producer, the series will premiere in January 2017 with a preview broadcast on CBS followed by an exclusive run in the U.S. on CBS All Access.