The ILC Favourite Characters Of All Time

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When I was younger I used look at those Cerebus collections on the top shelf of a comic store, but the sheer volume scared me away. So I'll probably never read, especially since later on ILC has informed me about its opinions on women and stuff.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 30 October 2006 10:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Do you only ever read things you know you'll agree with?

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 30 October 2006 11:03 (seventeen years ago) link

and fuxache you can read the first half without "opinions" getting in the way

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Monday, 30 October 2006 11:08 (seventeen years ago) link

You would need to be reading fairly selectively to get from ILX the view that Cerebus has a consistent opinion on women and stuff.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 30 October 2006 11:25 (seventeen years ago) link

"Cerebus" had a very strong female readership basis before Sim went insane, didn't it? My Comic Book Store Guy told me it did. Makes sense anyway, with most of the smartest, strongest and/or most sympathetic characters being women.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 30 October 2006 11:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Perhaps that was badly worded - the comic itself was the thing that scared me away. I tried to leaf through some volume in the library, but it had like tens of pages of writing instead of comics. The stuff I've read over here has simply enhanced that feeling, but it's not the cause of it. And I haven't read all the Cerebus threads, so I don't know exactly which part of it has "opinions".

Anyway, I can read stuff that I don't agree with, I've read a lot of Miller for example (and I like some of his stuff regardless of his opinions). Still, I can't see why objectionable views couldn't be a perfectly valid reason for shying away from a certain piece of art. There's enough stuff to read anyway, you gotta choose on some basis.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 30 October 2006 11:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Still, I can't see why objectionable views couldn't be a perfectly valid reason for shying away from a certain piece of art. There's enough stuff to read anyway, you gotta choose on some basis.

qft

Still, Tuomas, since you're so politically involved, you might want to try giving "High Society" a go.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 30 October 2006 12:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Can you read the books individually then, without tackling the whole series? Because I think that one might be available at the local library. Anyway, it really was the inclusion of written pages that scared me away from Cerebus. I hate it when comic writers do that, it seems just lazy. (In Strangers in Paradise, for example, there's a inexcplicable written part in the middle which could've easily been substituted with a comic version of the same scene.)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 30 October 2006 12:53 (seventeen years ago) link

(Not that Strangers in Paradise is particularly good in any way.)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 30 October 2006 12:58 (seventeen years ago) link

There are only two Cerebus books with written portions - Reads, where the written bit needs to be written since it's a book-within-a-book and metatextual, and Latter Days, which all of us found heavy going.

The High Society recommendation works well, because you don't really need to read the first volume and High Society comes next. I think you'd like Church & State, Jaka's Story, the Mothers & Daughters books and Guys a whole lot.

And yes, I've just spotted the irony here that we're all trying to encourage Tuomas to read an indie book here.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 30 October 2006 12:59 (seventeen years ago) link

High Society works fine as a stand alone story. As for the text parts in Cerebus, their inclusion generally makes sense in context, at least in the first half of the run.

xpost- Jaka's Story and Melmoth and Going Home have written sections as well!

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh aye, so they do.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:05 (seventeen years ago) link

My favourite bits are where Cerebus gets drunk.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Some of us found Reads heavy going as well, it's fair to say.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Though now I've remembered which bit of Latter Days you're talking about, the comparison isn't even close :)

But yes, basically, you have a few thousand pages before you get to all-text, and many of them are fantastic.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I find it very reassuring that even Tuomas hates "Strangers In Paradise"! That book essentially scared me awa from non-superhero comics for life.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 October 2006 14:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't hate it, but I found it perfectly mediocre and clichéd. I don't see why I got such praise, except that it was, er, "for girls". I guess the relationship stuff was kinda okay, but the action bits were totally silly.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 30 October 2006 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link

The first Cerebus book has some great stuff, especially the first Julius story, I'd say it's definitely worth reading (although a lot can be skimmed).

Then, if you pick up High Society, you're going to want to read the rest anyway -- though I'd quit after "Melmoth" and maybe pickup "Guys."

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 30 October 2006 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree that there's lots of good things in vol 1, it's pretty underrated, and fascinating in that his skills as both a writer and artist are improving at such an exponential rate throughout.

I think Mothers & Daughters is excellent if you skip the text sections in Reads. Guys is way too long and self indulgent. Some good gags, some interesting stuff with Joanna at the very end, that great bit where he punches himself in the face, that's about it.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 30 October 2006 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link

The first "Cerebus" book IS good, but I don't think Tuomas would enjoy it very much. Twas a personalized recommendation.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 30 October 2006 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link

It's more or less the standard recommendation: 2 then 1 then 2,3,4..

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 30 October 2006 15:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, start with High Society.

Actually High Society has a couple of tiny text bits too: the rules for Diamondback and some of Suenteus Po's book on "The Six Crises." But they shouldn't interfere with your reading pleasure.

I'd actually _rather_ read good art that's opposed to my politics than good art that's in concord with my politics, which was kind of the point of that long article about Cerebus I wrote a while ago.

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 30 October 2006 15:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, but the crazy anti-feminazi rantings in Cerebus are not only the most offensive, they're also the most boring.

I don't remember your article well enough - maybe you said that.

It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Monday, 30 October 2006 15:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I liked the bit where you compared Cerebus to a cathedral, which is similar to my feelings on it - a good deal of what it stands for repulses me, but I can't help but be fascinated and enchanted by it.

Not much actual discussion of Cerebus the character here. Is it possible to divorce him from Cerebus the comic drawn by crazy person Dave Sim?

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 30 October 2006 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

High Society and Church & State Iare, to my mind, Cerebus' high water mark.

I thought Reads was a bunch of shit and Minds was a Howard the Duck rip.

J (Jay), Monday, 30 October 2006 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link

The central concept of Minds is hardly original, but it's executed with an unusual intensity and detail that sets it apart. Plus, some of Sim and Gerhard's best art ever.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 30 October 2006 15:55 (seventeen years ago) link

That recent Joker origin thing mentioned WAY upthread may have been the Ed Brubaker-penned The Man Who Laughs business.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 00:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Daniel (upthread a bit): yes, a lot of the people who bought Cerebus at the store where I worked (until around issue 150) were women. I don't know how "sympathetic" Sim's women characters are, aside from Astoria, who's just fascinating. Jaka kind of looks sympathetic for a long time, until you realize she's been coasting on the goodwill of the way she's presented but actually is not at all a good person...

Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 06:45 (seventeen years ago) link

8. Galactus (Fantastic Four etc.)


http://www.geocities.com/marvel_villain/galactus/galactus_watcher.jpg

(185 points)

The finest product of Jack Kirby's fevered imagination, Galactus wasn't a villain at all – in fact, he doesn't behave any worse than the Jehovah of the Old Testament, who would have thought nothing of
annihilating humanity if it were required to keep himself afloat. Galactus is above morality; when the Fantastic Four set out to stop him, they're not doing anything so petty as battling evil, but fighting for self-preservation, just as he is. And it's all brought
to life in Kirby's breathtaking art; if Winsor McCay was the master of larger-than-life landscapes, Kirby was the master of overscaled action.
(Justyn Dillingham)

He's a HUGE GUY with a SILLY HELMET and he EATS PLANETS! Plus he has a NAKED GUY ON A SURFBOARD as a herald. One hell of a crowd-pleaser when you're drunkenly telling your non-initiated friends about comic book lore (Daniel Reifferscheid)

Greatest moment: His first appearance. Nobody knew how far Stan and Jack could and would go - UNTIL GALACTUS. (Vic Fluro)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Ew, sorry about the line lengths there.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmm, my Joker complaints seem petty now.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Does Galactus have a personality, or is he appealing exactly because he doesn't have one, like a force of nature?

I remember reading some story where Galactus was revealed to be Reed Richard's son... What the hell was that?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Another chance to post my favourite image of Galactus:
ihttp://www.threerivertechreview.com/Galactus.jpg

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link

They ruined Galactus when they gave him trousers.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link

The same thing happened to Donald Duck. Sad, really.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:15 (seventeen years ago) link

lol @ stubbly Richards

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Uatu's pose has always struck me as odd in that panel.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Has Galactus actually been used well in a story since FF#50?

(NB I nominated and voted for him - this question is no bearing on his magnificence as a purple giant with a bin on his head)

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I kinda liked the GALACTUS NEED DIALYSIS story from Byrne's run.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I remember the Byrne sequence in which Earth's Mightiest Heroes (and possibly Hawkeye) managed to knock Galactus over as being rather splendid.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I rather liked when the Marvel Zombies ate him - after having had the Silver Surfer as a starter.

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

That was the very picture I was going to use before I found a more Kirbyish one, Joe!

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I've been meaning to have it made into a t-shirt since I first saw it.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 17:09 (seventeen years ago) link

7. Enid Coleslaw (Ghost World)

(190 points)

http://myspace-367.vo.llnwd.net/00506/76/30/506410367_s.gif

Hopey for a new generation! Though I have no idea who the one for now is.

Sometimes the most obvious choice is also the best one. Ghost World is Dan Clowes' finest achievement not because there was a movie based (ever so slightly) on it, but because it's a work of remarkable sympathy and insight about two girls preparing to enter the world of adulthood, one of whom succeeds and one of whom stalls. Clowes' beautifully elliptical storytelling style, which focuses on one moment of epiphany after another, is well suited for the story of Enid and Becky, who thrive on the weird discoveries they make in random places – until that pleasure evaporates along with their friendship. It's Enid who captures our imagination more, though, perhaps because her fate remains uncertain at the story's end. (Justyn)

Enid is one of the smartest, sharpest characters in comics - the graphic novel is at once a celebration of that and a fairly pitiless look at the traps smartness and sharpness can drag you into. (Tom)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

PS is that your real email address, Mark Co?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

For the benefit of the three people who haven't already seen this factoid, which blew my mind when I realized it like five years late: "Enid Coleslaw" = anagram of "Daniel Clowes."

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Enid from Ghost World.

Haha, no way.

-- Jordan (jordan...), October 26th, 2006.

pwned by Tuomas :(

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 6 November 2006 17:12 (seventeen years ago) link

(mind blown)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 6 November 2006 17:55 (seventeen years ago) link

On the other hand Enid is the perfect Daniel Clowes character, since she works as a critique of hipsterism and intellectual elitism, but on the other hand, unlike most Clowes characters, she refuses to be a mere vehicle and becomes sympathetic despite herself.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 6 November 2006 18:16 (seventeen years ago) link

How many hands are you working with, Tuomas?!?

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 6 November 2006 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link


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