Grimes/Claire Boucher thread

do you critic-types think artangels is going to produce a top 10 single? belly of the beat and pin seem like contenders

― Treeship, Sunday, November 15, 2015 9:42 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not a chance

yeah no

what about that california song

it's about california. that's a pretty mainstream state

they'll love it in pomona

I don't think the broader public typically embraces such ostentatious displays of weirdness until they're already familiar, and feel comfortable, with the artist in question. Gwen's "What You Waiting For" is allowable because it was from a singer whose band had been troubling the charts for some 9 years prior, the persona she displayed was just a more oddball version of what listeners already expected from her. Even Gaga had a full album of hits under her belt before she started actually living up to her art school rhetoric.

Would love to see Grimes in the pop charts.

my mom asked the other day if i knew who grimes was

still loving this album.

It would be great to see her on the charts but yeah, no. I would be pleasantly surprised but no way. Tim F has an interesting insight, I'm trying to remember 'weird' avant artists that hit the charts without a more traditional single first. Laurie Anderson? Then again, weird was cool in the 80s.

This album makes Visions a hard listen for me now. New realiti also better.

lol. Been playing this nonstop pretty much myself

Laurie Anderson definitely the big exception but she also feels very exceptional ("O Superman" doesn't even try to be pop except in the broadest sense).

New wave produced quite a few exceptions to my rule even as early as 1979 - "Rock Lobster", Lene Lovich's "Lucky Number" etc.

But I think that's more reflective of an entire genre movement pushing a fetishisation of a particular strain of weirdness into popular consciousness, and in that regard is more similar to e.g. the Busta / Timbaland / Missy / Hype Williams moment in rap/r&b.

Perhaps not surprising that The Weeknd is mayble the closest example in recent times.

and even "What You Waiting For" wasn't a hit in America.

I think her management said they wanted to try to get a song on pop radio in the next few months but I don't know anything would get much traction

yeah it's just not a matter of "will the public embrace it?" -- it has to be pushed first

Since I’ve been anticipating this album since Visions, I hate that I’m “meh.” It isn’t bad. But it lacks the wonkiness of Visions.

I like to imagine that there is some perfect late 90s / early 00s psueudo alterna-rock-dance chick album that has the perfect precedent for a lot of the stuff on here but which we're all too terrified to go back and listen to. Like, buried on some Bif Naked or Poe or Vitamin C album.

It sounds like it’s produced by Butch Vig. It could be a Garbage album.

Laurie Anderson definitely the big exception but she also feels very exceptional ("O Superman" doesn't even try to be pop except in the broadest sense).

It’s certainly pop. I wouldn’t be surprised if a number of quirky pop songs from the 90s:

Baz Luhrmann’s “Everybody’s Free (to Wear Sunscreen)”
Bran Van 3000’s “Drinking in LA”
White Town’s “Your Woman”

etc. etc. etc.

were on her Zune.

I don't think the broader public typically embraces such ostentatious displays of weirdness until they're already familiar, and feel comfortable, with the artist in question.
--Tim F

there aren't any ostentatious displays of weirdness in the potential singles though

I don't really see what's so weird about these songs.
I mean, nothing more than nikki minaj or lady gaga.

i could see one of these being a pop hit. the album may be "weird" but the songs and melodies are very pop

the album certainly tries to be 'very pop' but i think it misses the mark most of the time and more generally isn't very compelling. (grimes's last album didn't click with me either so it's possible i just don't 'get' her.) not sure if her management will legit be going for radio play with one of the songs but i would say there is almost no chance of that working out.

i do really like a few of the songs on the album though, "realiti" included. i find it hard to believe now that "realiti" was just some tossed off afterthought demo as she suggested -- i mean, it was premiered with a music video that clearly took more than just a little bit of work, and to these ears it's much better than most of the songs that ended up on the 'real' tracklist. i don't think the final version changes things that much but yeah, the first version, perhaps from sheer familiarity, is the one i like better.

i do like 'realiti' a lot

hoping this will grow on me.

dont mean to beat this dead horse but i think her vocals should be more foregrounded, im less interested in her ideas about what is or isnt pop (feels like a creative cul de sac frankly, i like how young thug just transcends that shit)

feel like these songs a really very pop. i wish she was as popular as the other pop stars. she should produce some britney spears.

the album certainly tries to be 'very pop' but i think it misses the mark most of the time and more generally isn't very compelling.

Sometimes I can't tell whether this is a Pop album or a "Pop" album. That said, I could totally hear FWB being played on top 40 radio, even if it's just slightly outside the typical radio single.

Is it getting radio play? Is this even a meaningful question anymore?

it's most definitely "Pop"

"Oblivion" was her slow burn sleeper hit, nothing on here comes close

I thought "Go" sounded like a huge hit and it wasn't, nothing on Art Angels sounds as current

seem to recall that "Oblivion" was instantly loved by all when gr8080 posted the video in some thread many moons ago and is not a slow burn sleeper anything

the way she sings "uncontrollable" in flesh without blood is sooooooo good

I'm really into the part where she sings "baby believe me"

I'm not saying these songs could never be hits, just that the public typically require an in for anything that doesn't sound utterly familiar at the outset; an artist they know, a sound they're already fond of or interested in, a soundtrack appearance. This last really should be a priority for Grimes' label/management if they want her to cross-over, but even then I suspect it would have made more sense with Oblivion (perhaps Lena Dunham at a party) than anything on this album.

Which doesn't change the fact that this album is totally brilliant.

I'm not saying these songs could never be hits, just that the public typically require an in for anything that doesn't sound utterly familiar at the outset; an artist they know, a sound they're already fond of or interested in, a soundtrack appearance.

― Tim F, Monday, November 16, 2015 4:25 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this isn't quite true -- the public typically requires a marketing apparatus, but if there is one then almost anything will fly. this year "I'm an Albatraoz," "Honey, I'm Good" and other songs, all of which would seem hilariously unlikely, were all accepted without question

I like to imagine that there is some perfect late 90s / early 00s psueudo alterna-rock-dance chick album that has the perfect precedent for a lot of the stuff on here but which we're all too terrified to go back and listen to. Like, buried on some Bif Naked or Poe or Vitamin C album.

I briefly considered the first Imogen Heap album but when I went back to reskim it wasn't on-point.

― Tim F, Sunday, November 15, 2015 9:04 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

katy rose's "candy eyed"?

I suspect it would have made more sense with Oblivion (perhaps Lena Dunham at a party) than anything on this album.

― Tim F, Monday, November 16, 2015 4:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Stevie D complained that they were playing Ke$ha and not grimes in the S2 bushwick party scene IIRC

was listening to this in the office today and a coworker asked if they play this music on the radio. I said no, she said they should. so i looked at her like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"Easily" is nice, i could see that in a commercial

I agree that if Grimes ever did anything as monomaniacal as "Honey I'm Good" or "I'm an Albatroaz" she'd have a much better chance of crossing over.

Even "Go" ultimately sounds a bit too deep for the audience it purportedly courts.

I wouldn't call them "monomaniacal," I'd call them "fucking weird"!

Those kinds of songs don't need a contextual framework because the listener "gets" them within five seconds basically - whereas Grimes' current songs flit and dart all over the place.

grimes needs to soundtrack a youtube of squirrel suit people and get with that caffeine beverage $$

there's even a doppler effect sound in Kill V. Maim. Maybe have a squirrel suit person fly by the camera at that part. it will be huge.

It's interesting to see how the dissonance triad of "Grimes is a great auteur" / "Art Angels unequivocally shoots for the highs of mainstream pop" / "Mainstream pop is shit music for dumb people" plays out in different individuals. For some, it collapses into "Art Angels is shit and not Grimes' *true* sound"; for some, "Now Grimes is shit"; for some, "mainstream pop is probably OK actually".
Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, since there were plenty of people into mainstream pop *and* Grimes, so that they are fine with taking the album as a successful convergence of things they loved already.
As for me, I am totally fine with mutually contradictory ideas, so I think G is wonderful, the album is wonderful, and 90% of chart music is shit.

this song was actually done for the girls soundtrack ftr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt0IiGxNntw

after M.I.A. and Lana Del Rey and The Weeknd had the gigantic pop hits that various people on ilm hoped or feared would or wouldn't happen (and countless other pop-leaning critical darlings didn't get any chart love), it feels kinda tedious to have this kind of back-and-forth about another artist. maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

She's not up to it as a live performer to be a pop super star. One of the worst shows I have ever seen live.

Isn't the question not whether or not she could have a pop hit but whether or not there's something intrinsic to her current direction and to her art that could find popular appeal? I don't know the details of Lana del Rey's hit (looks like most of her singles just surfed the lower reaches of the hot 100) but certainly with MIA her hit was a quirk of cinema crossover and a particularly effective sample, an extrinsic quality; she didn't become a charting artist bc she never really had a grasp on what a broad audience is interested in musically; with weeknd something similar happened, he needed songwriting ringers /producers brought in to crossover

Of course there's something about weeknd, del Rey, MIA that has some intrinsic appeal. But while what the chattering classes choose to gravitate towards in an artist may have some broad appeal if properly marketed or reshaped, you're talking about artists who in the main are beloved by a self selecting audience for some quality that doesn't include reaching outwards and instead appeals to a potentially large but still marginal cult

I'm not saying grimes is one of these artists per se.... I think that's why this question of pop has come up so much for her, in addition to her expressed interest in pop, is that she feels like an artist who could potentially have both a writer-appealing sensibility but also write amazing pop records...this album to me feels a bit conservative in that respect, but then I don't think popular appeal is an inherently conservative move

Largely agree with the above - my interest in the above topic is less whether a chart crossover will happen and more the varying overlapping meanings of "pop" that get deployed in these discussions and where this music fits on that blurry venn diagram.

What I could certainly imagine is Grimes writing tunes for other more chart-friendly artists (as per Chairlift) and scoring a hit that way.

I just heard the Realiti demo after getting used to the album version and the demo is so astoundingly better. I had forgotten of the extended break in the demo halfway into the song. I'm realizing now that Art Angels is lacking in these moments of clarity. Every song just goes up and up without marveling in the atmosphere that has been created for too long. Visions lived for those moments and Art Angels has killed them almost entirely (Butterfly has a good one and Easily seems to move from one into another).

I'm guessing she'll make her way onto the Radio One playlist before too long but the difference between UK and US radio seems so vast that I wouldn't extrapolate anything from that.

Why do you all like Realiti so much? It's one of the weaker things here for me.

Have you heard the demo version Matt? It's quite different.