show etiquette

US shows vary wildly. Doors could open at 8 and nobody goes on til 10 and the last act isn't done til 1:30 or whatever. I hear where TWU is coming from, but I also think kinder and others make great points - it's not unreasonable for people in all kinds of circumstances to want to be able to plan their evenings a little more precisely than a five-hour block standing on a hard floor in a loud dark place. I don't know how to reconcile that with not wanting to screw the first act, who in a three-act bill probably "needs" the show more than anybody else and will obviously be the first to get trimmed if it's a completely a la carte kind of situation. I'd like to imagine JRN is right that in the end more business and goodwill would come to the promoter who makes all information available, but even if that is the case, it doesn't help the no-name local opener playing to an empty room.

I think the most useful might just to be extremely clear about when doors open and when the first act is really, no bullshit, supposed to go on. Let people do the math for the rest if they want to.

emil.y otm, this is what normally happens (and I quite like when you get to a venue and set times are posted up). The 11.30 show time was a bar in the UK though (not a typical 'gig venue' but does put on a lot of shows. The same bar, I turned up for another gig at like 9pm and the headliner had already been on.
I went to see a support act in the US and thought I'd stick around for the headliner, luckily I asked when they'd be on because it was like 1am.

If this was typical I'd think long and hard about buying tickets for shows. I think as long as you have rough start and finish times for the whole thing that's enough - it's when this is lacking I get pissed off - and people on really tight schedules should be able to find out about a specific act.

I contact the FIRST band on the bill via either Twitter or Facebook and ask what time they go on. They will almost always answer before showtime (I think they know for sure after soundcheck) and just count out from there. In Seattle most shows are over by 12:30 in bars/clubs and much sooner in large venues.

All I got to say is dive bar metal band bills kinda suck as they always want like five bands or more to play in a night. You got to have some real mental and alcohol constitution to hang through 5-6 hours of death metal with an odd hard rock or doom metal band thrown in and still be wanting to throw down at 2am. The shit that really sucks is that the guys that live an hour or two out of town get "headlining" bill which means you are playing to a couple freaks and the sound guys dog while the local guys are home playing Halo, smoking bowls and eating nachos when your dumb ass gets to the stage.

Otm

I hear you. I just think I'm doing more for everyone involved by doing well-thought-out, my personal guarantee that nobody sucks shows at non-shithole venues than I would by telling people that Yob is on at 1:48 am unless Jimmy's Chicken Shack goes long but hey there are $1 drafts all night.

i've always wondered - in the US it seems de rigueur for gigs to go on significantly past midnight. is this just in cities with reliable night-time public transport? in most of the US cities i've visited, public transport's not that great in the day let alone at night. or do people just not drink so they can drive? or do they shell out for taxis?

(always want to know the stage times myself, i'm aware they might not be exact but people have lives to plan that might not involve drinking crap overpriced beer in scuzzy gig venues to the sound of bands they don't care about) (or alternatively if i assume the headliner's on at the usual 9-9.30pm time in the UK, i don't want to get there to find they actually started at 8pm)

I was actually hoping a promoter would respond to my query cos I was genuinely curious. I mean I get it - you have to do right by the bands you book or they won't want to book. for me I just have an issue sitting through that much music in one night.

I think that's why I prefer festivals where I can pick and choose.

or do people just not drink so they can drive? or do they shell out for taxis?

no they pretty much just drive drunk

when I went to Welcome to Rockville in Jacksonville this year, I was having trouble finding my car, and I was walking along the curb. Cop that's directing traffic was like "yo man I wouldn't be walking in the street like that, most of these drivers are drunker than Hell".

I was like well then I wouldn't be much safer on the sidewalk, would I?

In DC most (if not all) venues post set times on twitter. Very helpful.

Promoters here don't post set times pretty much ever, and they delay start times waiting for people to show up, which gets into a vicious circle of people not showing up til later and later because bands start later and later. Sorry, fuckers, headliner starting at 1:30 on a weekend is hard to stomach; 1:30 on a weeknight is impossible. i've pretty much stopped going out to shows now. WHERE ARE MY SLIPPERS & BATHROBE?

yeah where's my bathrobe, good question

Are promoters/venues not informing the public of lineup changes becoming a new thing? tonight I was gonna go to a local metal show cos there was an interesting death metal band called Masticator from West Palm coming. So I get there and they ask me who I'm there to see and after I give their name they're like "oh, they...actually won't be here tonight, they bailed". the FB event from the venue still had their name in the title, and the venue had been making posts about the show throughout the day, but all they did was go in and update the show description to remove the name of the band that bailed with no other comment (and then deleted my note warning other concertgoers that they wouldn't be there).

a few months earlier, I went to a touring festival show where the promoters/venue made no comment about two bands that would not be showing up that day and one angry fan posted a seething rebuke on their page as he had driven for hours to just see those two and then promptly peaced and went the fuck back home.

on the one hand, I can see that with festival shows (even if I disagree w/ not making the announcement), esp when the no-shows aren't the headliners, as you always run the risk of not getting the full lineup. but when the 'headliner' of the local show bails, what's with not saying anything and trying to sneak one past people?

the thing that has been frustrating me about shows for the last few years are the steady stream of rude fucks who decide they deserve to shove by you to get to the front even though you staked your spot out an hour ago.

to the point where I tend to pick shows at places where I know the layout makes that a non-issue. i have mild claustrophobia, I can't focus on a show if I'm constantly being banged into and have to turn my head and let you by. if I decide to tell you to fuck off and block you or tell you to sod off, that's another thing taking me away from the concert I paid for, even though it makes me feel better. one dude banged hard into my shoulder and i nailed him in the head with my still semi-full beer can a few years ago.

so I usually wind up either finding a spot where there's not much traffic, or get up front if I'm early enough. it's not an issue at 98% of the shows I go to, but those 2% frustrate me to the point where I can't enjoy myself.

is this just a 'me' thing or does this aggravate anybody else? I'm not talking about someone who went to take a piss and is coming back to the spot their friend saved them, I mean people who legit are latecomers who want to trudge their way to the front when there's no feasible way to get through and use your body as Jenga pieces.

tale as old as time ime

beauty and the beatdown

meanwhile, I feel guilty if I'm standing even partially in front of someone who is shorter than me (which is most people).

you think you're in a decent spot, then 30 secs before the band comes on this endless stream of fuckers just keeps on coming, culminating in tallest guy in the world stood square in front of me.

If there's gonna be jumping, he has a backpack on

and he's holding up his Ipad to video the show

this has always happened -minus the iPod - ime and i went to my first show in 1997 (korn, limp bizkit, helmet at the barrowlands in glasgow)

People see me (a short person) and it’s like a fully lit corridor opens up in front of me. I’m easy to pass so everyone chooses to pass right in front of me. Annoying but I don’t see it changing unless I grow a foot or so taller.

otm: has always happened (first show was The Ocean Blue in 1993). I like to stand in the back and off to the side, even though I am fairly short, so I have freedom of movement and my main show partners were all like 6'3" so I took over their blocking people anxiety.

Lol The Ocean Blue! I won one of their albums off the radio.

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

(I will also gladly move if asked -- i.e., to make room for someone's friend -- though the strategy seems to work out well.)

Second row or stay home

Yah - there's goofs at shows when I stake a spot (9x outta ten, I'm just looking for best venue sound). I tend to not let it bug me much, but I'd be liar if I didn't say that there's just certain bands I don't see anymore. Sometimes it helps me when I say to a goof, 'hey, I'm recording the show, gimme yr email and I'll make sure ya get a link to torrent or cloud sharing solution' - & that usually chills things out a bit.

the last time I was in a prime show watching spot was because friends wanted to stake out a place so we were upstairs against the railing (terminal 5, terrible venue in ny) and it was humid as shit (august), sold out (pj harvey)and i just had people pressed up against my back the entire night trying to burrow their way past me. It sucked so bad.

i have the claustrophobia thing as well as the fire thing, so my desirable spots are never near the front (unless the crowd is sparse, which is fairly common).

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:13 PM bookmarkflaglink

(I will also gladly move if asked -- i.e., to make room for someone's friend -- though the strategy seems to work out well.)

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:14 PM bookmarkflaglink

Yea if i am choosing a spot i will typically scan behind me to see who i am standing in front of since i'm tall. I will move over if someone shorter than me is behind me. Sometimes unavoidable but generally I'm a hippie at shows, i just wamt everyone to have fun

Our House of Blues i swear gets oversold. I went to see Meshuggah one night on a Monday, nowhere near sold out, had a blast. Next night, Bad Religion sells the place out. I went onto the floor, all the way to the back.

Once the pit opened up, i couldn't flinch without making physical contact with someone. People's heads brushing my adam's apple, a few accidental head bumps.

I started breathing heavy and then found a spot that opened up when some people vacated the floor so i could at least breathe.

I hate HoB. Even the one in Vegas has the same shitty layout

I'm with J0rdan's original post.

I am sick of being in a good spot watching the music only to hear the loud conversation cut through from people on both sides.

Like why are you even here

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020

The last show I was at (Liz Phair) was seated, and I was up front (lucky!)… everyone stood when she started playing, and so I did too… but I was super self-conscious about blocking the view of folks behind me. So I sort of stood awkwardly “sideways” most the show, facing the dude to my right, in an effort to minimize my effective surface area. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(I was in the 2nd row; so if I didn’t stand, I’d be looking the whole time at the butt of the guy who had the front-row center seat.)

the worst 'neighbor' i ever had at a show was at Pulp in i think 1998 (they were touring This is Hardcore). i was lukewarm on the band even then, but being 14 years old my friend and i staked out spots in the front early on. He spent the time grabbing random women by the arm and helping them towards the front (i.e. in front of us), sitting on the floor and setting fire to any litter he could find with his lighter and, towards the end of the show, grabbing the left shoe off my foot and hurling it into the middle of the crowd. I had to wait until the room cleared out to find it. The guy was like the same age i am now.

xpost was it a good butt?

I always--always--end up close to the woman with the most piercing voice in the venue.

I don't mind people acting enthusiastically for the show (as long as you're not bowling me over as a result of your enthusiasm). but like...look, there are tons of bands on any bill I'm not there to see, some I hate. if I have shit to talk about the band or am completely disinterested and want to talk to my friends, I go outside. where I can hear, for one, and where I won't be shouting over the music and ruin something else's time.

any time I'm at any show to see someone that isn't the headliner at this one particular venue, I have to deal with people dicking around in very loud, distracting ways. the other night I would have moved but unfortunately where I was standing was the best available sight-line combined with best area for sound (this venue is very spotty). wanted to be stubborn and say "why should I move, I was here first and shouldn't have to".

I did see something at a show once where this fan was standing near the back, near the merch area, and he was texting, and it was an opening band, and the bass player in the band pointed at him, pantomimed texting with his hands, and flipped off the fan. then when the fan looked confused, did it again. all while still somehow playing the bass. in fan's defense, this was a sprawlingly large venue and he was very far away from the stage and wasn't actually watching the show or obstructing anybody for doing so, but it was hilarious

Um … fuck that bass player, I suppose. (Or don’t.)

When you’re playing a set on stage, who has time to care about something like that?!? Weird.

Yeah, that comes across very entitled and self-important to me. Would the musician have acted the same way if someone in the audience were writing in a notebook?

I saw Jeff Tweedy once call out people for holding their phones at a Wilco show.

Roger Waters has a voiceover tell the entire crowd to 'fuck off' right at the beginning of his show nowadays.

Lol yea I heard that last show

Pleasant fellow

What the message actually says is "if you like Pink Floyd but not Roger Waters' politics then you can fuck off to the bar." Which I think is something well worth saying.

Long show review whose structuring “hook” is the band berating the crowd for a lack of enthusiasm: https://racketmn.com/this-is-the-last-sleater-kinney-show-ill-ever-review

Oh yeah, saw that review by a former ilxor. Not a good look from Brownstein imho, although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

I’d never been called “tepid” quite so gently in all my life. Granted, Carrie Brownstein hadn’t directed her comment at me specifically; you might even say that I (notebook, pen, working, etc.) had something of an excuse for not exactly kickin’ up my heels, more so than the many paying customers nodding in subdued approbation for Sleater-Kinney at St. Paul's Palace Theatre on Saturday night.

Not that any of them—any of us—had some obligation to go crazy out there, as the singer/guitarist acknowledged even as she noted what she more euphemistically called our “shyness.” When she thanked us “for bringing whatever version of yourself here that you could tonight,” it came off as a genuine (if a tinge Portlandic) attempt to meet a reserved Minnesota audience where they stood.

although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

Yeah maybe I should’ve said “chiding”