When Santana was great!

Digging into the Carlos Santana & Buddy Miles Live! album now. It opens with an absolutely blistering version of John McLaughlin's "Marbles" (from the awesome Devotion) that features Carlos and Neil Schon doing some impressive duetting.

Onto the 25-minute "Free Form Funkafide Filth" now, which, a few minutes in, does not appear to be as noteworthy as its title.

^^^ listening to this now, for the first time in 30 years. Totally transporting me to my teenhood. I was fascinated by side-long jams as a kid, but I pretty much skipped "FFFF" even back then.

There's a great essay to be written (perhaps it has been in the liners to the LD&S reissue, which I don't have, or the Stump book which is on its way to me) on the relationship between Santana and McLaughlin. On the surface, you'd think these guys might not be compatible -- it sounds like Santana was kind of in awe of McLaughlin's technical prowess. But they shared a lot in common: a guru, a love of Coltrane, affection for each other's compositions (Santana played "Marbles" from Devotion on the Buddy Miles record and "Meditation" from LD&S is on Lotus). Here's a good quote from the Mahavishnu book:

Carlos Santana:I felt really comfortable being next to John. I looked at John as a brother who, like B.B. King or Buddy Guy, was someone that was there before me in that arena with Miles. I had loved what he had done onIn A Silent WayandBitches Brew. I was coming from the mentality of thinking that jazz was an ocean and that there were also lakes, swimming pools and bathtubs. I knew I couldn’t go to the ocean where Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Miles and Wayne hung out. That was a whole other thing for me and I respect that. But, I can hang out in the deep end of the lake! Once I got the confidence I needed, that even with John McLaughlin, I could hold my own...

I'm pretty sure there's some stuff about McLaughlin (and that whole era of Santana) in Carlos's autobiography from a couple of years ago. I remember flipping through it specifically looking for the chapters on the early '70s.

Actually, it came out last year, and was co-written with Ashley Kahn, who's done some decent jazz books.

I love LDS, some scorching guitar stuff on there. Quite transcendental in places.
There's a tour for the lp that has something like 10 shows shared which somebody talks about 1 date from somewhere earlier in the thread I think. Dates were shared on at least Dime and Trader;'s Den, I'm not sure if they're up there still but what I heard was great.
I meant to pick up the most recent remaster of the LDS cd but haven't got around to it.

I think Santana was interesting live up through 1973, possibly a little later. I do love that Bitches Brew like fusion stuff he was playing with the Lotus era band anyway.
I do also really like the Fillmore '68 set, but is it the 1st lp line up or one previous to that. Not sure where mine is at the moment.

Got to say I am pretty curious about the Santana IV record coming out next week which is a reunion of the Santana III lineup with Neal Schon, Greg Rollie, Michael Shrieve and Michael Carabello with Ronald Isley guesting on three songs on vocals.

the abraxas pool album (schon/rollie/shrive) from the 90s is terrible.

carabello's on it too

Sony put out that 2 CD version of Santana III that has a bonus live show of that version of the band and it is excellent.

man it's a hot one

I've heard a little bit of Santana IV; it's a lot slicker than they sounded in 1971, obviously, but there's some very cool instrumental stuff, too.

I gave my copy of Abraxas (think it was an original pressing) to a friend who loves Santana just recently and now I'm starting to regret it.

this is great -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8dGh1iEmCY

am curious about the new album with the original lineup.

New album is pretty good. Slicker and more commercial hard rock than previous albums by this lineup, obviously - there's one song that's blatantly trying to be another "Smooth," and it's not even one of the two that Ronald Isley sings - but there's still plenty of hot instrumental stuff in between the radio-friendly tracks.

I'm quite fond of early Santana, but to be honest I'd sooner listen to a Mandrill record.

"Jazz-rock supergroup" Mega Nova: Carlos, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, Marcus Miller, Cindy Blackman Santana, apparently just for one-off at Hollywood Bowl--bet there will be an album, legit or not: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/inside-carlos-santanas-new-jazz-rock-supergroup-w434803

New album sucks

Better than Abraxas Pool, though

Honestly surprised Turrican fucks with Santana!

that supergroup has got my number

Marcus Miller would not have been my choice of bassist for that group. Better options, in order:

- Michael Henderson ('70s Miles band)
- Buster Williams (Mwandishi)
- Stanley Clarke
- Tony Levin (saw him with Santana in the late '80s)
- Bill Laswell

man marcus miller plays bass on cupid & psyche he can be in any supergroup he wants

curious what Brad thinks of "Say It Again."

i haven't before now but i feel extremely positive about the first thirty seconds

lol

Marcus Miller shreds! Fuiud

I liked him a lot with Miles, especially We Want Miles and Tutu, but would prefer someone with more of a '70s jamming mindset with Santana. I've never heard Cupid & Psyche and that's unlikely to change.

He seems fluid and versatile enough to succeed with that sound, idk. We'll see I guess.

- Michael Henderson ('70s Miles band)
- Buster Williams (Mwandishi)
- Stanley Clarke
- Tony Levin (saw him with Santana in the late '80s)
- Bill Laswell

that band has a big bottom

Just heard "Open Invitation" from Inner Secrets (https://youtu.be/cQP_05hTYWg) on Pandora--Santana biting Zep or Whitesnake or something for one of the most "1978" Rock records you can imagine.

Wasn't Inner secrets the album they recorded down the hall from Prince when he was tracking For You (and where he met Sheila E)?

"santana supergroup" just brings back bad memories of that mclaughlin thing he did in '73.

But Love Devotion Surrender is a fantastic lp with a great bunch of live sets from a supporting tour.

& it's got Larry Young onboard and everything

^^^^ otm

^^^^ otm

― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson),

hancock/shorter jazz fest set was one of my favorite musical experiences of 2016

honestly it was the best thing i've ever seen prob

someone uploaded a longer video of it finally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3agp0ejoGs

i think it was essentially 3-4 improvised pieces over 45 minutes

herbie handcock, the porn version of herbie hancock

ugh carlos is the bono of lead guitarists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Iel_DGhklw

https://youtu.be/1Iel_DGhklw

or, the jordan crawford or something.. total disregard for feel and integration, just "here i go shredding away, look out everyone"

oh man. Excerpts:

[u]It certainly was a very hot one!

Cast of characters:

Carlos Santana
Rob Thomas
Itaal Shur (co-author)
Matt Serletic (producer)
Brian Yale (Matchbox Twenty bass player)
Bono (Bono)
Marcus Raboy (Music Video Director)
Marisol Maldonado (Thomas’ wife, the Spanish Harlem Mona Lisa)

The year was 1999. Carlos Santana and Rob Thomas recorded “Smooth” and it quickly became one of the most ubiquitous and successful singles of all time. Whether you love it or hate it, “Smooth” remains a career defining moment for both Santana and Thomas, and continues to evoke strong and passionate reactions seventeen years later. Here now is the untold and often harrowing story of how “Smooth” came to be, in the words of those who lived through the life-changing experience.
Chapter I: A Hot Day

Carlos Santana: It is difficult to remember much about the song “Smooth” featuring Rob Thomas because I do not care and it does not really matter. But I believe it all started when Jamiroquai rang me on the telephone to tell me about his boring day.

This may or may not be 100% real.

Matt Serletic (producer): It’s been confirmed again and again that Jamiroquai made no such call. Everyone knows Jamiroquai has no phone. And if he did, he wouldn’t know how to use it. [laughs uncontrollably]

Itaal Shur (co-writer): Santana’s people reached out to me to see if I had a song up my big sleeves that would close out their concept album. The only direction they gave me is that it should make the listener visualize sexual-intercourse.[/i]

Thomas: I didn’t even know who Carlos Santana was at this point. I actually thought he was the guy that who was in charge of Libya

and

Thomas: “Room 17” was a great song. Maybe the best I’ve ever heard. It made me super horny. I loved it. But something was missing. So I changed the lyrics, the melody, and everything else about it. When I sat down to re-write my intention was not only to write a song that makes the listener want to bone another human being, but to write a song that could [here, Thomas closes his eyes] kill God.

Maldonado: Mr. Santana was not pleased with the line about the Spanish Harlem Mona Lisa. I don’t blame him. That line means nothing to Rob, and it makes me throw up every time I think about it.

Santana: I said, “What the hell is this Spanish Harlem Mona Lisa crap all about, white boy?” Rob said nothing for a moment. Finally, he smiled like a murderer and told me nothing means anything until the Kingdom of Heaven burns. I have to admit, the kid had guts. [laughs]

http://www.gq.com/story/santana-rob-thomas-smooth-oral-history?mbid=social_facebook

Just got my copy of the super deluxe Japanese reissue of Lotus in the mail. It was triple vinyl originally, and a double CD when it was reissued in the 90s, but now it's a triple CD, fully remastered in surround sound (it's a hybrid SACD) to replicate the original quadrophonic mix, plus it's got 7 previously unreleased tracks adding 35 minutes of music. It's in a 5"x5" package that folds out like the vinyl edition used to, has two thick-ass booklets, a poster, and a whole bunch of other shit. It's crazy. No plans for a US release as far as I know.

Shit that sounds awesome. Lotus is such a great record. SACD is the one surround format I still don't have – otherwise I would be all over that.

I had my eye on that, importcds had it for $6x, now it's $72, too much.

If you saw the physical package, you wouldn't hesitate. It's seriously one of the most beautiful things ever. And the music sounds fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hs2SjSqJjw

you're very forgiving and I'm not sure how the problem has now become people being too mean/hasty/judgmental towards the santanas of this world but I don't like it at all

how is being this christian about it really working right now?

i'm forgiving because i can be... it's a form of privilege i have. you're not in a position to do that... other people may expect you to be forgiving but i don't think that's a fair burden to put on you. i wrote a long thing in the roisin murphy thread that kind of goes into how i look at things... doesn't mean i'm right or anything, just how i look at things. your take carries just as much weight as mine imo.

I agree with everything in your other post and you have a much better handle on the UK situation than most (non-terf) UK progressives

I am doubtful about the claim that being this nice - or having to be this nice - is a product of privilege though

the main reason I'm doubtful is that I've seen the nicest people ever turn the other cheek towards their abusers over and over and it looks more like a survival strategy (not necessarily a healthy or successful or sustainable one) than a luxury to me

and given as you noted how much of a generational marker this has become in britain the dynamics of familial abuse are central to this movement and how it operates

Alice Cooper and the assholes from Aerosmith have been open about being Republicans for many years. They’re really in the same camp as Ted Nugent

I agree with everything in your other post and you have a much better handle on the UK situation than most (non-terf) UK progressives

I am doubtful about the claim that being this nice - or having to be this nice - is a product of privilege though

― your original display name is still visible (Left)

i don't have to post in as kind and conciliatory manner as i have tried to do in responding to thus sang froid! i made a conscious decision to do so. i'm in a position to assume good faith! that's where the privilege comes in. in the uk, quite honestly, i don't think i could do that. in the uk, i think that the most effective means y'all have to oppose entrenched transphobia is through radical direct action, stuff that draws from things like Zaps, ACT UP, that part of queer history.

for most of my life, for decades, my life was about survival. that's the most important thing, being trans, you have to survive, you have to keep yourself safe, by any means necessary. that's still the situation for most trans people today. that's another way the privilege manifests itself. transphobia affects all of us, is a threat to all of us, but it doesn't present an imminent threat to me. i can focus on other things.

i do _need_ allies, we all _need_ allies, and i guess not having to seek out allies is a privilege i don't have, but goddamn, i like the work. i really fucking enjoy doing it. i wish i could do this kind of thing full time, do outreach full time, instead of running these stupid useless reports at the bullshit job i'm paid to do. i fucking love this. i love talking to other people about my life, about my experiences. my career goal is to one day get to be gay for pay.

wait. what. there's another meaning to that term?

as far as being "christian", i consider this to be a very serious allegation. :) in my defense i would like to point out that immediately upon waking up yesterday, i posted "hail satan. baphomet is goals." to ilx... i would like to give you my personal assurance that i have not been born again since that time!

having to choose between satan and jesus is just another cis imposition as far as i'm concerned

more seriously thank you forever for being you and doing what you do - in this bubble it can be too easy to forget that being trans is actually possible in practice and having living examples to the contrary is so so important right now

awwww, my pleasure... seriously, that i am a positive role model to so many people just by, like, existing has been consistently pretty mind-blowing and awesome.