Taking Sides: New Order v. Joy Division

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I revive this because of the accidental realisation this morning that JD's 'Substance' comp. and NO's 'technique' share exactly the same layout and typography.
Then looking at the two albums, it hit me (*doh*) that the titles, technique vs. substance, were themselves related. I don't know if it's a random wordplay or whethere there's a deeper meaning in there (eg musical form overtaking artistic substance)..

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Thursday, 21 August 2003 13:45 (twenty years ago) link

i choose new order.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:19 (twenty years ago) link

New Order had a compilation called Substance before Joy Division did.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:22 (twenty years ago) link

Fabrice the problem with that theory is that New Order also had a substance compilation.

Since this thread started I like JD mostly less and NO mostly more but I like my favourite JD songs more and my favourite NO songs less. I think I am the loser in this trade-off.

Mark I notice you have not yet scanned in that Wire!

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:23 (twenty years ago) link

Easy choice for me - New Order.

― James Ball (James Ball), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:27 (twenty years ago) link

scan the wire, mark! scan the wire!

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 21 August 2003 15:33 (twenty years ago) link

Joy Division!

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:54 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah I know about the NO compilation. That's what I meant this idea that JD/NO up to 87 were dealing in 'substance', while by 1989 they were focusing on 'technique'.. Ok, pretty fuzzy thinking..
As for the TS, NO all the way, if only for diversity's sake. With only 2 albums to their names, JD didn't really have time to develop a coherent body of work

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 22 August 2003 07:03 (twenty years ago) link

the 13 yr old inside will not let me say anything besides 'Joy Division' but I'm alot more likely to listen to and admire New Order nowadays

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 22 August 2003 07:05 (twenty years ago) link

Listened to Technique last night, and was floored once again by how 'Dream Attack'. I listened to that song every morning when I was 17 and I'm still amazed by how uplifting that song and so many NO songs can be

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 22 August 2003 07:24 (twenty years ago) link

Joy Divison ... by a neck.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:09 (twenty years ago) link

And loving both but prefrring the one, what drives me nuts is so-called New Order fans who draw the line somewhere around Low-Life. If you buy in at all, I think you've gotta allow for more--in its bloated big-sound way, even something like "Touched By the Hand of God" is pretty neat. I think Technique was probably the end, but ...

(granted, the video for "TBHG" left me incapable of objectivity, but still ...)

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Friday, 22 August 2003 20:16 (twenty years ago) link

Joy Division.
But I like rock/pop more than I like synth-pop so this is predictable.

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 23 August 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

"Don´t you forget Rudolf Hess!", shouted Ian Curtis in the JD gig in 1978. "Walked in Line" is also covered by fascist group Blood Axis..

― Division Kalevala Finland, Saturday, 23 August 2003 16:50 (twenty years ago) link

"Have you never heard of the free use of signs and signifyers? We've also got a band on our label called the Durutti Column. I hope the irony isn't lost on you".

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 23 August 2003 17:18 (twenty years ago) link

I'm of the mind that NO is really a continuation of JD and that the band's entire career has been pretty mindblowingly wonderful. The lads made a few mis-steps here and there, sure, but still...

― Kent Burt (lingereffect), Sunday, 24 August 2003 01:39 (twenty years ago) link

The lads

Hey, don't forget Gillian now. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 August 2003 01:42 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not sure what Brian is saying about Touched By The Hand Of God, but it is surely the greatest New Order single of all?

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 24 August 2003 01:44 (twenty years ago) link

I haven't heard it for years, mind.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 24 August 2003 01:44 (twenty years ago) link

I fell in love with Joy Division. New Order actually makes me sad to the point that I do not enjoy lisening to them because they lack one important thing: Ian Curtis.

― Brandon Welch (Brandon Welch), Sunday, 24 August 2003 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

I would take "Take On Me" or "99 Luftballoons" over everything I've heard by New Order put together.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 24 August 2003 13:51 (twenty years ago) link

I have a handful of beans you might be interested in, Sundar.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 24 August 2003 16:02 (twenty years ago) link

Early NO was pretty good but they really got horrible.

― kid blue note, Sunday, 24 August 2003 16:48 (twenty years ago) link

Joy Division by miles and miles and miles.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 24 August 2003 17:47 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not sure what Brian is saying about Touched By The Hand Of God, but it is surely the greatest New Order single of all?

it probably is.

it's definitely better than anything Joy Division did.

although that's not really comparing like with like.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 25 August 2003 12:43 (twenty years ago) link

nah, that would be Temptation

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:02 (twenty years ago) link

Sundar, put down that Styx record and get some New Order.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:04 (twenty years ago) link

I have three of them.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:18 (twenty years ago) link

(New Order records, that is. I actually paid for them too.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 25 August 2003 13:19 (twenty years ago) link

eleven months pass...

is it me, or does it seem like new order is currently much trendier than joy division? i cant get too upset, because i think i like new order better - more emphasis on melody, although perhaps at the expense of well-written lyrics...

OBV this is the most hackneyed question of all time when you brits are concerned.

― peter smith (plsmith), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:42 (nineteen years ago) link

two years pass...

I don't think they ever did Louie Louie.
according to the ian curtis and joy division fans(!) club site they played louie louie live several times. there doesn't seem to be any recording of it, not even a bootleg, though.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 13 August 2006 06:59 (seventeen years ago) link

New Order... although they should have thrown in the towl after Republic.

― Public Radio (public_radio), Sunday, 13 August 2006 07:15 (seventeen years ago) link

That is to say the Rebpublic was the shit but they should have just gone out with a bang.. and they should have taken the Pet Shop Boys with them, after Very.. And also Depeche Mode after Violator. They should have all patted each other on the backs and moved on to philanthropy.

― Public Radio (public_radio), Sunday, 13 August 2006 07:17 (seventeen years ago) link

This thread demands that I divulge my dirty secret - I always liked New Order more. Even when Joy Division were all the rage with the people I was hanging with, I always preferred New Order.

But as I've said elsewhere on this board, most Joy Division has aged amazingly well. I appreciate them more now than ever, but I can't play "Closer" anymore. That's the only problem. There's just some mental block there, even though I know it's a brilliant record.

― Kiss My Grits! (Bimble...), Sunday, 13 August 2006 08:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I just want to clarify that a bit, though, what I mean is I was introduced to JD and NO at the same time, so even though these people, much older than I were telling me JD was better, I still didn't feel that way.

― Kiss My Grits! (Bimble...), Sunday, 13 August 2006 08:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I know this is gonna get me flamed but, outside of a handful of songs, JD really kind of annoys me.
New Order all the way....i even like alot of their 90's stuff!
There I said it.

― astronautagogo (astronautagogo), Sunday, 13 August 2006 10:06 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, have fun in HELL

― rizzx (Rizz), Sunday, 13 August 2006 10:30 (seventeen years ago) link

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