Actually, hold on, is this inverted snobbery? I see the whole point of the comment, it fits in with Chuck's pro-pop stance all these years, but this is a bit like willful ignoring of a situation -- obviously STP, say, had enough hits and people liking them for all the fact that I didn't and clearly were getting played on the radio. But so indeed were NIN, on MTV, getting people at multiband festivals all wound up and singing along, etc., just like STP. So is that Chuck is right or that they didn't have the balls to be pop like an individual listener likes, in which case we're just back to radical subjectivism (not a bad place to be of course).
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 22:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 November 2003 22:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:00 (twenty years ago) link
I saw SW open for the Sex Pistols Filthy Lucre tour howevermany years ago. The crowd was booing through their whole performance and throwing things onstage.
The singer said, "C'mon! This is fucking punk rock show, people. Get into it!"
Some guy said, "Bring out the punk rock!"
― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:10 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:14 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:16 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9941/seward.php
― chuck, Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:23 (twenty years ago) link
Having said that, one of the best, most underrated songs in that vein is "Skin Up Pin Up" by Mansun & 808 State.
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:23 (twenty years ago) link
Well yeah, but pop isn't just that or we wouldn't be here in the first place (unless all we talked about was Gary Numan and Prince, which is quite all right by me). I mean, when NIN first surfaced all the industrial hyperbores were annoyed precisely because they WERE pop, among other reasons because they were getting above average (if not regular rotation) MTV play as early as 1990. And they had good beats you could dance too and all that -- if stuff like "Head Like a Hole" WASN'T catchy you can bet you wouldn't have heard much beyond that first album anyway, but it was that popularity that led to further attention, the Lollapalooza slot, the break with TVT for Interscope etc. etc. *shrug* I mean, stuff gets big that lots of people like that you might not! We all know this!
But unlike Nine Inch Nails, they had no delusions of being "original" or being "artists" or whatever. They were JUST a damn pop band. Which may well be why they're being sneered at here.
Uh, refer to Dan's point. Chuck, I'm surprised you of all people are arguing absolutes here. There's no dividing line except the one in your head, but there's no dividing line anyone has except that individual one in their head anyway.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:26 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:33 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:35 (twenty years ago) link
haha that was BOOM
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:41 (twenty years ago) link
Heh, true. Mind you, this was mostly based on their boring live shows opening up for among others Front 242 (who I KNOW you hate, I admit ;-)). I just remember the lead dude screaming while wearing leather chaps, which wasn't as cool to my mind as Carla Bozulich doing the same thing in Ethyl Meatplow.
the dividing line *always* exists
One can exist but it is never fixed. I think its fluidity is actually the best reason for its potential existence.
You already KNOW it's my opinion, right? Jeez.
Well, yeah, but if we're going to use words like 'pop' without specifying what exactly it means then all anyone would ever do is talk at cross-purposes, and maybe that's all that can be done anyway. You dislike a band for not being poppy, I think they're plenty pop, nobody is right and therefore we just...talk. Which, again, is no bad thing.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 23:48 (twenty years ago) link
STP are one of the best singles bands of the 90's. BIG DUMB FUN. Purple was also pretty damn great and essential to my pre-pubescent experience. The lyrics are utter shit BUT THE RIFFS, MAAN... 'EY PUMMEL... The first rock band I fell in love with at the tender age of 9. SCREW ALL Y'ALL, BIYATCHES!
― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 21 November 2003 00:15 (twenty years ago) link
It's funny that this comes up, because this week I pulled out the old NIN cds for the first time in at least a year and a half, and I was happy that all of my favorites ("Closer," "Into The Void," "Suck," "Heresy," "March of the Pigs," "The Perfect Drug," "Where Is Everybody?") still sounded pretty good. I can't listen to NIN for more than a half hour at a time, though. I reach my threshold very quickly, and I probably won't listen to NIN again for another year probably. But it's okay. It's good stuff. Sometimes it feels nice to feel 14 again, the further you get away from that time.
― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 November 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 November 2003 14:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 22:22 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 22:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 21 November 2003 22:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 22:38 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 22:40 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 22:45 (twenty years ago) link
I mean, it's not like I've been defending LIVE or anybody. (Now THERE'S a band who deserves lots of blame for '90s alt rock radio...)
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 22:52 (twenty years ago) link
If only they were Sparks.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 21 November 2003 22:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 November 2003 22:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 21 November 2003 22:54 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 22:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:03 (twenty years ago) link
Though I'll take "Jeremy" over all the early STP bloaters, it's got more drama & crescendo-action.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:04 (twenty years ago) link
Well, my point wasn't merely predicting that they'd HAVE a best of album! It was in my 500 (really 600) top metal albums book; I said that once STP put one out, it would probably DESERVE to be in the book (at least if it included four specific songs, two of which, as I mention above, it DOESN'T have by the way). But they had no albums at the TIME that I thought were good enough. Hope that makes sense....
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 23:09 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 23:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:12 (twenty years ago) link
Hey, I live with some very extinct books, I know the feeling!
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:13 (twenty years ago) link
Chuck spake: Gravity Kills? -- they were doing the industrial rock thing as pop metal, pretty much -- Alex in NYC (or Alex in Manhattan, sorry, I always forget which) should really check out "Falls Apart," which sounds kinda like Killing Joke.
It's not Alex in Manhattan, it's Alex in MAIN-hattan, which is a town in Germany, I believe, and we are two entirely different individuals.
Gravity Kills? I get them all mixed up with Stabbing Westward and God Lives Underwater and all those other sub-NIN bands. I can't remember if it was Gravity Kills or Stabbing Westward who opened for Killing Joke in `94, but in any event they were dire. Moreover, with the possible exception of late, lamented and missing-in-action band Belfegore, I'm not really interested in bands who sound like Killing Joke. I mean, why eat beef jerky when you could eat Filet Mignon, eh?
As far as the Stone Temple Pederasts go,...well, I mean, it's kinda the same thing. Why would someone waste time listening to STP when thy could opt for the definite article? Sure, they wrote the occaissional decent tune (I didn't mind "Vaseline," and "Sex Type Thing" does have a great riff), but I'd much prefer to listen to, say, Soundgarden. Also, way too much drama in that band....and not even interesting drama at that.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:18 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 23:19 (twenty years ago) link
― chuck, Friday, 21 November 2003 23:21 (twenty years ago) link
Sounds like a rule I'd agree with, Chuck. And yes...both of those videos (Belfegore's manic clip for "All that I Wanted" and the backwards Japanese guy eating in the God Lives Underwater clip) can induce nauseau.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:24 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:37 (twenty years ago) link
If I could go back in time, I'd tell 15-year old me that someday he would realize Sixteen Stone was better than Nevermind, just to see the look on my/his face.
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:39 (twenty years ago) link
That's ten songs right there. They'd probably include the failed follow-up singles from the last two records and a new song or two, I'm sure.
They really should put out a NIN best-of. That'd be good...it'd be something like this, probably - Head Like A Hole, Down In It, Sin, March of the Pigs, Closer, Hurt, Wish, Happiness In Slavery, Suck, Burn, Perfect Drug, Into the Void, We're In This Together. That's pretty tight. They'd probably find a way to fuck it up, though.
― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:40 (twenty years ago) link
(I will not bring up "Starfuckers" because that song is SHITTY SHITTY.)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 November 2003 23:41 (twenty years ago) link