Clusterfuck Summary Corner

It's a story where a women came out and masturbated in front of a party of people that included her kid

See maybe this is just the field I work in but this says "mental illness" to me much more than it does "horny"

You guys are arguing with a position I'm not even taking but im pretty tired of talking about this stupid article

So you're arguing that it's okay to be a dick about a rape victim because there's a market for pandering asshole journalism?

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:02 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I am quite emphatically not saying that fwiw

This thread has taken a turn away from summarizing a clusterfuck thread to importing a clusterfuck thread. Which is redundant.

What position are you taking then?

it reads awful like that and has done for three days to r more especially in the posts from the last ten mins in this thread also all the other ones can you see where multiple posters who have no issue with you ten months out of the year keep pulling you up on this or do you genuinely believe that we are out there coordinating disagreement with you just for kicks cos man my sundays are worth a lot more to me on that there's only idk three ilxors I would do that for

What position are you taking then?

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:12 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That the market for pandering journalism is the problem

That viral bullshit is what pays for actual journalism is the problem

So you're arguing that it's okay to be a dick about a rape victim because there's a market for pandering asshole journalism?

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:02 PM (7 minutes ago)

And that a thread like "hey gawker dudes" was a pretty lazy way to ignore structural probs while getting to feel like I were making a difference

So you're arguing that it's okay to be a dick about a rape victim because there's a market for pandering asshole journalism?

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:02 PM (7 minutes ago)

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:21 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I said it was "ok"?

How about: being a dick in an article about a rape victim isn't nearly as horrible as the market for pandering asshole journalism that this article is just a small part of?

Not claiming one is worse than the other but one is definitely a symptom of the other

my hot take, or how these clusterfucks tend to get rolling

it is ridiculously easy for people to interpret explaining bad behavior as excusing or justifying it, especially if one's explanation is not accompanied by a sufficiently virulent condemnation to override this default interpretation. socially speaking, when condemnation is taken as the only valid position, anything written in addition to that is taken as a weakening of the condemnation and therefore must be condemned.

it appears that deej is now caught in the trap of endlessly explaining that he wasn't excusing gawker when he was explaining gawker. this will never be countenanced. his explaining will, at this point, be automatically be taken as excusing his original offense, which excusing must be condemned.

deej needs to understand that the only socially acceptable position right now is to condemn himself, and to apologize for what he is certain he did not do, or else shut up, because he's not going to elicit understanding of this distinction, no matter how much or how clearly he explains himself.

I've been there too often to count.

ya but he did

endlessly

i was going to point out that, while i'm certainly capable of debating an ilxor until everyone involved or reading is frustrated and exasperated, i can't imagine believing that EVERYONE doesn't get it. That I've got a valid point, I'm explaining it perfectly well, and the overwhelming majority, not just one or two little stinkers, are completely missing it after a day of posting. If I had that little respect for the hivemind, what would be the point of engaging with it?

but aimless to the contrary.

"It's not insulting, it's simply accurate" is explicitly a defence, aimless. Not an "explanation", as though anybody here needed one.

i was suggesting that the way it was used by the writer was being misinterpreted not that it was inherently defensible but whatever

Aimless otm I think that's why the argument died down the first time when I said the only possible solution was max's resignation

Your interpretation - that it was purely descriptive - is fucking risible and the wording is offensive even if that interpretation of the authors intent is correct, which I highly doubt

"It's not insulting, it's simply accurate" is, on the face of it, a non sequitur, which makes it a very useless defense.

I wasn't arguing for its efficacy as a defence, lol

"It's accurate" was offered as an explicit counterpoint to "it's offensive". That is an excuse. OBVIOUSLY it isn't a good one, as there are a thousand other "accurate" ways to describe this particular rape victim that aren't offensive, even if you accept "horny mom" as accurate, which I and most others don't

Fwiw I still think it's prob accurate

I don't remember the original context of that but I imagine the idea was a shorthand shortcut for "whether it's offensive is subjective and beside the point with respect to the argument I'm making, which is how this article functions w/in a wider structure." They could have used the word horny, or they didn't have to--sounds more like a particular use of "voice", though, rather than an attempt to provoke

because voice is strictly neutral and has only a subjective role in persuading, repelling, asserting, criticizing etc

if deej thinks I was otm, then maybe he'll go ahead and drop it -- or else partially rehabilitate himself by explicitly commending all the parts of the majority critique he agrees with, while remaining silent on his disagreements and no longer attempting to elicit understanding of, or agreement with, his disputed points.

Haha

sounds more like a particular use of "voice", though, rather than an attempt to provoke

12 PARTICULAR USES OF VOICE WITH SURPRISING RESULTS!

Aimless that post was so vainly cynical I thought a pink Floyd song was gonna break out

we said it was kind of shitty for gawker to call a woman a "horny mom" two paragraphs after describing her rape.

was the original context fyi

A particularly humiliating, trivialising, dehumanising choice of words that none of the other places that chose to run this prurient story used. That is what people objected to, and what you obv disagree with.

Then you were like "why aren't you going after HuffPo" and ppl pointed out that they didn't use those humiliating, trivialising, dehumanising words.

Obv all this is "beside the point" if the point is that prurient articles don't exist in a vacuum, but nobody disagrees with that and ppl were objecting to a specific choice that this site and only this site made, and which you have defended as simply accurate. Or maybe not simply accurate, it's all subjective and beside the point. Or maybe just "voice". Or idk whatever shorthand shortcut you imagine up next

xp - Aimless, do you understand what points deej is trying to make?

My perspective is that deej finds more moral ambiguity and nuance in the situation than anyone else does. He trusts his judgment on that and everyone else finds his judgment faulty and the situation morally unambiguous.

It seems that to deej the word "horny" doesn't carry the same weight of derision that it does for most of us. He seems to view it as descriptive, but not especially demeaning. I disagree. He seems to believe that the author could validly choose that word, within the context where it was used. No one else agrees with him that the context justified that choice no matter how it is looked at.

I happen to stand with the ilx majority rather than with deej. But I do understand the general frustration of someone in his position.

Haha

glad you can laugh, but it really would be better for you to stop digging your hole deeper

Deej laughs in the face of "drop it"

My perspective is that deej finds more moral ambiguity and nuance in the situation than anyone else including me does. He trusts his judgment on that and everyone else including me finds his judgment faulty and the situation morally unambiguous.

It seems that to deej the word "horny" doesn't carry the same weight of derision that it does for most of us including me. He seems to view it as descriptive, but not especially demeaning. I disagree. He seems to believe that the author could validly choose that word, within the context where it was used. No one else (including me)agrees with him that the context justified that choice no matter how it is looked at.

I happen to stand with the ilx majority rather than with deej. But I do understand the general frustration of someone in his position.

/Haha/

glad you can laugh, but it really would be better for you to stop digging your hole deeper

Lol u crazy bastard I guess explaining isn't excusing after all <3

jesus fuck what a way to spend a weekend
everybody go outside, the weather is nicer
(than this, no matter where you are)

I wouldn't be surprised if some of us did other things as well this weekend

Not me tho, I've been suspended upside down in a cellar pressing f5 this whole time

:(

i made a cassoulet

sort of

i did it indoors tho cos it was pissing down outside i think

i was on Facebook a lot

any of this is too much on the "add a pinch of dogshit to a chocolate sundae and you have a dogshit sundae" principle

i mean i'm not gonna say it's been the most productive day, i don't think i've helped the world move in a better direction or anything

fwiw my pulling out of this argument is not at all a tacit agreement w aimless's recent summary of the argument, which I think does not accurately capture my POV. alrightbye

spoke to my dad, did a bit of long-distance parenting on the phone

oh yeah, i cut my fingernails

don't feel great tbh, everything's so empty and pointless going forward

disagreed with some people on the internet, that brightened me up a bit

sometimes feels like that's the only thing that really keeps me going

it's the companionship, you see, or at least the sense of imagined companionship