HEY JEWS

xpost try would imply "effort", y'know, like you actually reading the Talmud prior to commenting on what it is.

I have not read the Talmud so I do not post about it. Novel thought, right? you should try it.

― Hammer Smashed Bagels,

Not sure why you and Mordy are implying you need to have read Talmud front to back to "know what it is". Any brief summary can tell you what it is. Mordy took issue with me saying it was in some ways reflective of the xtians use of the gospels, which it does seem to be to me.

good point. a brief summary of your ILX posts tells me yr a piss poor troll with shit tastes in hip-hop.

mordy do you have any recs for books on jewish ethics that aren't by Joseph Telushkin

I just recommended Heschels Prophets to drash- it's excellent. Also you might dig some soloveitchik like lonely man of faith

who is trolling who

you're not actually willing to debate the issues and the content of these books

As a society we have already debated the issues you are bringing up. It is illegal to murder, retributive violence is not tolerated, and women now have autonomy. It sounds like you want to debate the person who wrote Deuteronomy, which is going to be difficult to do.

good point. a brief summary of your ILX posts tells me yr a piss poor troll with shit tastes in hip-hop.

― Hammer Smashed Bagels

ok so you've come in for a flame war because you don't like what's being said about the torah, yet im a piss poor troll. Either way I think you're wasting my time. bye!

As a society we have already debated the issues you are bringing up. It is illegal to murder, retributive violence is not tolerated, and women now have autonomy. It sounds like you want to debate the person who wrote Deuteronomy, which is going to be difficult to do.

― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau),

I would argue this as a clearly disingenous point as it's already been stated that millions of people are still following the words of the torah, as Mordy has already mentioned. So let's talk about it.

okay now i know who's trolling who

"Women now have autonomy"

― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau),

Have you been to a xtian wedding recently? Most xtian women still consider themselves property of the husband, if you push them on it. And the vows and attitudes reflect that. How many female rabbis are in Israel?

When Israel was formed in '48, the Orthodox Rabbinate were handed control over many society and family issues. Of course Orthodox Rabbis went on to be the dominate power in Israel (you can't get married in Israel under a non-Orthodox rabbi).

I'm not sure who you're arguing with or about what but I think that's ok bc I'm not sure you know either

The other poster was intimating the horrors of the Torah are looked over, which in a way was my original point - but in another way, wasn't to the post of they qouted.

Sorry I'm still not grokking. Can you the exact words that you are arguing with atm and tell me what the argument is?

Who let this guy back in?

Sorry I'm still not grokking. Can you the exact words that you are arguing with atm and tell me what the argument is?

― Mordy,

Ok man look, I thought you were interested in a debate about the Talmud, but when it comes down to it, you just want to avoid the actual contents part, or the bad parts. Which is exactly what I was saying people do in the first place. I know this is not an easy thing to talk about when it comes to your culture so w/e.

The Talmud is a different book to the Torah. I was interested in explaining what the Talmud actually is. You are arguing that there are horrible quotes in the Torah. So who is dodging the topic here me or you?

I think he wants you to admit that murder is bad.

The Talmud is a different book to the Torah. I was interested in explaining what the Talmud actually is. You are arguing that there are horrible quotes in the Torah. So who is dodging the topic here me or you?

― Mordy

No offence, but you're still doing it. This is the same avoidance tactic I've seen millions of times. Your twisting your own words now. Earlier you were saying the Talmud and Torah are intimately linked and cannot be separated, but now, you are saying the horrible qoutes are only part of the Torah.

(xp) as bad as Charli XCX

Not only do I not feel obligated to defend the morality of anything written in the Torah I also don't feel obligated to debate the morality of the Talmud. Here are the full parameters of my pov here: you mischaracterized what kind of book the Talmud is.

If you think I'm defending anything either of those texts say as morally correct you are having a conversation with yourself

I think he wants you to admit that murder is bad.

― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau),

Not exactly, but that murder committed by or in the name of God is bad, because if he does he is going against the teachings of the Torah. My question would be how anyone can base any sort of moral teachings from a book as shocking and murderous page after page like the Torah. It's the central problem.

had no idea that pages of a book could murder. is it the Necronomicon?

Good point. Nothing to do with whether the Talmud is a book of advice however. Xp

Dear Talmud....

So is the Talmud a book of advice?

I took a semester on Hindu Traditions and after covering the foundational texts we spent a lot of time covering the various philosophical schools and commentaries, which tended to really open up the possibilities for interpretation and debate on everything from practical/moral application to abstract/theoretical philosophy. Is that kind of what the Gemara is?

Not exactly, but that murder committed by or in the name of God is bad, because if he does he is going against the teachings of the Torah.

I can only say that no rabbi or religious teacher I've ever had has told me I'm supposed to go around stoning adulterers or destroying the cities of the Gentiles. You are welcome to go around thinking that all of modern Judaism is a big lie and we're all "going against the teachings of the Torah" if you want; but just know that by doing so you're on the same team as the clowns who insist that the 99.999% of Muslims who are uninterested in terrorism are "going against the teachings of Koran" because they're not out there killing unbelievers.

Yes of course, you pick and choose which parts of the word of God you like. Same as xtians.

Why are u guys arguing w this anti-semite moron troll

I had a long commute to Long Island this morning

Good thing picking and choosing which laws to follow isn't a thing in secular modern society OH WAIT YOU ARE RICH YOU DON'T GO TO JAIL HERE IS YOUR FEE BTW THANK YOU FOR BEING A LEADER AND EXAMPLE FOR ALL SOCIETY

and it goes on and on and onandonandonandgiggitygiggityGIGGITYGIGGITY!

I'm eating at a kosher Mexican restaurant now w my chassidic father but I'm thinking since the OT says we should stone adulterers maybe I should just go next door and eat some trief.

^yes, this is how i live my life actually.

The details of any book, including the Torah, the Bible, the Talmud, and the Grimms's Fairy Tales, can be analysed through deductive reasoning.

1. God created everything

2. Evil is something

∴ God created evil

Every book about God tries to reason with the external world about how and why evil exists, which comes down to essentially meaningless, mental gymnastics. Thus, religion created a priori knowledge. Theists, therefore, retreat to 'knowing' God a priori--another meaningless thought. What theists do not admit is how or why two opposite 'evils' exist. That is to say, how can, for example, one act be considered rape, and therefore evil, to some, while the same act is considered non-rape to others. More importantly, this gets at a nagging issue in the entire premise of theistic belief: things are neither intrinsically evil nor intrinsically good. What the theist says, therefore, is those whose standards of evil and good do not match up with his must be wrong, based on absolutely nothing.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1rgvwrU1yFE/maxresdefault.jpg

Omg is this for real can't we move this nonsense conversation to one of the many worthless atheist threads

Like it was sorta relevant when we were talking about the Talmud but once it became clear that we were just talking about raccoons hang ups on religion (btw Adam when I get off the road I'll write a better summary of what the Talmud is)

"HEY JEWS, why do bad things happen to good people?"

Thanks! Sorry to adding to the confusion, I agree let's take it to the atheist thread. I am genuinely interested in a Jewish take on the Bible partly because Protestant doctrine has long been very dogmatic and church-controlled and there are not many Protestant commentaries on the Bible that are not subsumed in that viewpoint.

The issue is not with evil, in fact evil is easily argued for theologically, I see it's place in the OT as not confusing at all. Again though, you are simply avoiding the issue.

The issue is not with "evil in the world", no one said it was, the issue presented was God of the Torah doing and encouraging the evil.

L-R: Raccoon, Mordy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DORN50y8Cbw

You've convinced me, raccoon. Congratulations on yr victory.

Just please at least engage with the debate on how you square your modern personal morality with the horrific teachings in the Torah? If you don't want to do that, I'll drop it.

how do you square your horrible posts with your continuing to make posts

Yeah I'm just not interested in having that conversation with you. If you're interested in learning about it, I developed many of my theological beliefs, particularly re the infallibility/divinity of the Torah, from Abraham Joshua Heschel's masterwork Torah Min Shamayim. It is available in translation and will also teach you about the Talmud. If you are motivated enough to read it, I will be motivated enough to discuss it with you. xp

I respect another man's beliefs, and have no interest in convincing you. It is a shame we could not have this debate. I am not an atheist, incidentally.

Arctic you must realize personal morality is not dictated by text referral it is through actions.

Hm, strange comment as of course most religious people do profess to derive their morality from holy scripture, hence their common refrains towards atheists on the subject of morality.