Is this anti-semitism?

"Ms. Roth, if the U.S. went to war with Switzerland ... what side would you be on?"

I think of course a person active in Hillel might possibly have a "bias" about Israel, but so might a person in a Muslim student org, or any other student for that matter. Maybe I don't understand what a university student council judicial committee does, but I don't really understand what a position on Israel would have to do with anything.

― five six and (man alive), Friday, 6 March 2015 15:38 (33 minutes ago) Permalink

issues related to BDS have previously come up before the student judicial board. recently, some student gov't leaders were given all-expenses-paid trips to israel by AJC and ADL, which in the former case was designed explicitly for American-Jewish campus leaders to help fight BDS efforts. a petition was filed (by members of a pro-Palestine student org) with the judicial board saying that the two Jewish student gov't leaders had violated the ethics rules concerning student gov't by accepting these free trips. i actually think they may have had a point (note: it helps if you read UCLA's ethical code for student gov't).

so that issue was almost certainly lurking in the BG -- unstated -- in this whole current issue. that doesn't make the line of questioning any less disgusting. having opinions—much less being of a certain religious/ethnic group—can't possibly be a disqualification for the student judicial board. if so, it would be a board with no members.

disgusted by the number of folks online who want to explain away what seems to me a textbook case of anti-semitism, admittedly among people who would be loathe to identify as anti-semites (but who would?).

"roth" is often a jewish name; it's very possible that student was jewish. doesn't make it any better.

"having opinions—much less being of a certain religious/ethnic group—can't possibly be a disqualification for the student judicial board" <<<< a lot of the defenses seem to miss this point. even if she was pro-Israel, having a political opinion that differs from the majority opinion cannot be a disqualification for a judicial board esp on an issue that has 0% to do w/ the life of a UCLA student.

well, like i mention above, i'm sure that the free-Israel-trip issue, which /had/ come up before the student judicial board, was in the back of the members' minds. so in a broad sense, the issue of BDS is "relevant" to the judicial board. but the idea that she could not impartially judge a possible ethics violation b/c of her ethic background/group affiliation is (we all seem to agree) gross, just as it would be gross if they had questioned a member of a pro-Palestine group whether her Arab or Muslim identity would get in the way of her ability to adjudicate impartially.

"roth" is often a jewish name; it's very possible that student was jewish. doesn't make it any better.

Are there many Jews in Switzerland? I know plenty money/gold/artworks stolen from Jews has ended up in Switzerland over the years.

I think it's important to note that they wouldn't have asked it of a Palestinian student since the phenomenon of Israel criticism in universities is often, as in the rest of the world, more or less a pretext for antisemitism.

^ well yeah exactly

even if she was pro-Israel, having a political opinion that differs from the majority opinion cannot be a disqualification for a judicial board esp

before i type my mealymouthed but but but, yes of course this is antisemitism. it's beyond clear that they thought her being a jew was a disqualification.

but really it depends on the degree of "difference from the majority opinion." we would not expect a white nationalist or even an active MRA type dude to be particularly fair in dealing with student disputes. there are people that "we all" could agree should not be in a position of judgment over others. but the lines around that category get pretty fuzzy.

if your view of israel is that it's a racist settler state then what other conclusion can you draw?
Sadeghi-Movahed, Singh, and Haq (and... Roth?) didn't think Beyda would be fair in judging people such as themselves (if you want to extend any generosity to them at all). just as they were unfair in judging Beyda in the same turn.

there's a kind of depressing zero-sum quality to these kinds of jewish-muslim disputes that my beloved deracinated liberalism is powerless to resolve.

er xps, the "exatly" was to amateurist

there's a kind of depressing zero-sum quality to these kinds of jewish-muslim disputes that my beloved deracinated liberalism is powerless to resolve.

― goole, Friday, March 6, 2015 12:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. I actually think the anti-semitism here is secondary to a battle for political control over campuses, although there is an anti-semitic element to it. It's bullshit to call it a battle against "bias" though, it's just a battle to make one bias vs another be the default.

I guess to the extent that I have a *bias* on account of being Jewish, I'd rather not see people disqualified from student governing bodies merely for potentially having the wrong position on Israel, even inasmuch as I understand how that position might offend a Muslim student. I will always have a certain Israel "bias" in the sense that the historical reasons for its founding are very personal to me, regardless of what I think of the results of that founding. And as much as I condemn Israel, I refuse any situation that baits me into the "condemn Israel on our terms OR ELSE" scenario.

paul, from wikipedia:

ccording to the 2000 census, the Jewish population of Switzerland was at 17,914 (0.2% of the total population).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_%28surname%29

it is a common name in Scotland

Uh, no it isn't!

imagine saying that US muslims "pay the price" for ISIS violence with harrassment. oh wait, plenty of people—on the right-wing—would say something like that. pot, meet kettle.

― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Thursday, March 5, 2015 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is the sort of thing that has me coming to the position that Islamophobia and anti-Semitism (in the US) are m/l two sides of the same oppressive coin, with this fixation on the inscrutable motives of these others and holding the collective accountable for the crimes of a few, often violently and openly.

and if Muslims and Jews are subjecting one another to such prejudices in this country then there's a gap to be bridged.

(I like to imagine that there's conversations to be had about the relationships between Muslims and Jews as immigrant & diasporic peoples in the West that have nothing to do with Israel, it's a nice dream isn't it?)

those conversations do happen! but they don't make the news.

been awhile since I've met/made any immigrant muslim friends but for awhile I had a coworker who was married to yemeni immigrant and I loved hanging out w that guy at work functions, v smart, v interesting cat. those conversations can be had! but it's hard and rare.

(we did not make the news)

I'd actually attribute a lot of the evolution of my views on Israel to my teenaged friendship with a single Palestinian dude. I think there is a lot to be said for having a real person in front of you who seems similar to you in every way except views on Israel (or anything) to make you think that there might be non-crazy reasons to have different views on Israel (or any other subject) from your own.

I mean up until that point I was pretty much spouting echo-chambered talking points. The fact that he was cool and not hateful and yet had totally reasonable responses to a lot of my talking points started the process of me understanding that some of them were just talking points.

"up until that point" being only up until age 13, to be fair, not like I was all that politically sophisticated yet.

i grew up in a milieu that included a lot of jews (i'm one of them) along with a bunch of palestinian intellectuals, for what that's worth.

(this is in the US, not the middle east.)

I want to express my frustration with my right-wing friends on Facebook who are uncritically posting articles about how muslims are bottling and selling the blood of Christians to drink. It is utterly beyond me how anyone can be aware of the long history and current liveliness of anti-Semitism (and these guys, like me, are) and simultaneously take "they drink Christian blood!" as a credible accusation.

In fact I feel like it's borderline anti-Semitic to participate in the perpetuation of the idea that drinking Christian blood for fun and profit is a thing that actually exists in the word.

i have never seen this - that's insane!

my FB friends in this vein like to source "JewsNews" for material of this kind -- feel free to go there yourself, I'm scared to.

in this vein
hah

http://i.imgur.com/hF0iv4W.png

that's news to me

news Jews can use

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/cynthia-mckinney-dieudonne-115988.html

wow, cynthia mckinney a know-nothing anti-semitic moron, no long public record indicating that

birds of a feather...

Staff often found themselves with students they had zero authority over. I've read articles where it is "revealed" that Emwazi used "Jew" as a slur and went on anti-Semitic rants. This would be no revelation to anyone who went to the school. "Jew" was a standard insult. There was normally no conviction to this—it was teenage rebellion no different really to the "edgy" comments made in any other school. At Quintin Kynaston, however, these comments often went unchecked.

Pro-9/11 statements were also commonplace and teachers, often not from the local community, did not have the intellectual resources to tackle this rhetoric because it was totally outside of their experience. Many ignored it, some tried to curry favor by joining in. I remember a student calling a teacher a "Jew," and the teacher replied that it was the student who was the "Jew." Another teacher, totally at a loss at how to control the class, talked about 9/11 conspiracies, how it was an inside job—yes, "Sheikh Osama" had nothing to do with it.

yes, that is antisemitism

what is the context for that, nakhchivan?

maybe worth starting another thread on this subject so rubes stop posting that xp

http://www.vice.com/read/quintin-kynaston-jihadi-john-531

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Attackers-yelling-we-will-kill-you-storm-synagogue-in-London-suburb-leave-worshipers-bloody-394684

Ellen Willis on anti-anti-zionism from 2003 but it easily could've been written yesterday:
http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/181449/willis-anti-anti-zionist

Sure. Pete Beinart could have written it. Or anyone from J Street. Why is this surprising? The politics of the region are locked in a static cycle and so people are saying the same things in 2015 people said in 2003 because people see no way out of their present positions.

But just when I think Tablet speaks with only one voice on Israel they run something like this:

http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/189842/confessions-non-zionist-jew

Good for them for running it, even though I'm closer to Willis than I am to Gitlin on this. (I am a Zionist, after all.)

a piece I wrote about about an old haggadah I used to have and how "in every generation they rise against us to annihilate us" can resonate, even when Jews feel unprecedentedly safe + secure:
http://tabletmag.com/scroll/190077/jewish-power-and-jewish-powerlessness

Taffy Brodesser-Akner has a related piece that ran w/ mine in a package that's explicitly about Jews + privilege that I think is also good:
http://tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/190070/being-jewish-polite-society

(lol "also good" i just meant also relevant to this thread)

an excellent essay, mordy

thank you :)

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