How comes nobody ever mentions the MC5 round here?

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I think perhaps we've got on Julio's case because we recognise that 'insufferable hipster' impulse in ourselves but just don't express it so nakedly. Apart from enjoying the tunage, I like Destiny's Child etc. because they sort of allow you to say "See, I don't just like groups that have been given The Wire seal of approval."

Andrew L, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No, you are wrong. We should not listen to what you think because you like mainstream music like Destiny's Child. giggles

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

'That said, coming off like an arrogant insufferable wank (i.e. my opinion is so so very right and you are an idiot or deluded or misinformed if you disagree) is pretty lame and, IMHO, a perfectly justifiable reason to be harsh in return.'

I've no problem with people being harsh to me. Because this is a discussion group and I'm providing some disagreement and I'm more than happy to defend my position. This thread would have been over and done with hadn't I done so.

'The problem isn't really one of limited tastes, but of limited social skills. '

You are the one calling me an 'insufferable wank' so you are the one who needs to work on your social skills but thanks I am highly amused.

Julio Desouza, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Andrew- I like tunes. I've said so elsewhere in this thread.

By the way: I hate a lot of groups that have been give the 'wire' seal of approval as well. Including the MC5.

Julio Desouza, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I can't resist (probably a sign that I should clock out and go home and fall asleep) this:

No, you are! mimes sticking out tongue

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

OK maybe people have been just harsh enough on Julio - but the thing is he's always like this on every thread surely? I've never found it particularly annoying myself even though I disagree hugely often enough. Why has everyone suddenly decided to call him a wank, point out how much he bugs them etc? Just because it's the MC5?

Tom, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

how do you mime sticking out yr tongue?

(i wasn't calling you a doorag julio, i wuz calling duane doorag a doorag)

mark s, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Melissa started it!

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

You mime it with great difficulty!

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Actually, I just said something cause somebody else pointed it out and upon rereading his posts I agreed (probably never noticed before). And I only responded to your response cause I'm awake and I'd said something and I felt duty bound to defend my reasons for saying something. And now I'm just having fun cause I'd hate to have anyone take any of this seriously and start a thread like "Why is everyone on ILM so mean and snarly?"

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I should mention that saying that someone is coming off like a wank and saying someone is a wank are two different things. Julio was saying things that made him sound wank-y. I'm sure Julio is probably a nice enough guy. John Ashcroft, on the other hand, is a complete and total wank. He is not a very nice guy.

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Tom- I am not always like this. I am not disagreeing just because I'm bored and I want some entertainment (I'm currently at work. Trying to juggle both work and answering some of these stupid things people have been saying abt me).

I don't care abt insults. Some people will resort to such rubbish but I don't care.

Julio Desouza, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I bought 'Kick out the Jams' on mayday 2000 after being let out of Trafalgar Square by the riot police and I have to say that it is poo. Its not even good as far as radical chic is concerned. Brian May nicked the singer's hairdo, it has the worst nostalgic sleevenotes ever, and worst of all they JAMMED.

owen hatherley, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Julio, DOORAGS ARE.....

http://www.rcleather.com/images/Doo%20Rag%20-%20041.jpg

http://www.mmurphy11.homestead.com/files/doorag.jpg

Holla

Ramosi, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Wow. Leather doo rags. Will wonders never cease?

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

listened to Kick Out The Jams this afternoon, conveniently enough. DIG THE CHAOS! i love the mic bleed, the detuned guitars, the ringing feedback echoing throughout, the liquid frenzy, the five-headed ramalama rumble, the desperation, the ridiculousness, the seemingly- unintentional-atonality, the fact that it sounds about twelve trillion decibels...

stevie, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

KOTJ is pretty choice but it's no "Vincebus Eruptum".

How come no-one ever mentions Blue Cheer round here?

duane, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i can't listen to the MC5, because lots of local bands rip them off. so its nothing to do with the mc5, just that i am SICK AND TIRED with that thang. i think i could quite soon feel similarly about the oblivions. that is *yawn go home you are so boring*. maybe when that thang is over i will be able to appreciate the mc5 for what they were.

di, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

three years pass...
This thread is horrible. The Five ruled.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 21 April 2005 05:51 (eighteen years ago) link

yes, 'back in the usa' and 'high time' are great. "looking at you" is fucking classic.

Amon (eman), Thursday, 21 April 2005 05:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I think most people listen to Kick out the Jams (which is a little weak) and never make it to the two albums that actually kick ass. Oh well, their loss. I never understood the complaints that Back in the USA was their shitty overproduced album or anything like that. Sure ther are a couple of lame tracks but if you just skip those there's still an amazing album left. I have to confess though that I nominated Back in the USA for the 70s poll when I was actually thinking of High Time. Oops. I didn't bother to change it because I thought "obviously someone else will come along and nominate High Time". I was so wrong.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 21 April 2005 06:04 (eighteen years ago) link

i think 'kick out the jams' is pretty crap. the only dud on 'back in the usa' imo is the little richard cover.

Amon (eman), Thursday, 21 April 2005 06:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Tim is right. You are all sad, sad, sad.

jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 21 April 2005 06:13 (eighteen years ago) link

"the only dud on 'back in the usa' imo is the little richard cover."

Ah, but the mix of that on Babes in Arms is great.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 21 April 2005 06:26 (eighteen years ago) link

MC5 are a personal touchstone, my Killing Joke as it were. But I understand the mixed reactions here because they were inconsistent and summoned love/hate reactions. The obvious modern parallel is Sonic Youth whose high-energy forcefields either gel into transcendence or collapse into anarchy depending on the weather. As the late Johnny Thunders told me in 1979: "I saw the MC5 25 times and they were always either really great or really terrible."

I never saw the 5 but I did follow Sonic's Rendezvous Band when I lived in Ann Arbor. Fred Smith was an amazing musician, pushing the envelope of every performance like a jazz saxophonist on a roll. Hearing him play was saturating, like swimming in the ocean: you'd wake up the next day still feeling partially immersed, with your ears ringing and a funny taste in your mouth. Kick Out The Jams!

m coleman (lovebug starski), Thursday, 21 April 2005 09:16 (eighteen years ago) link

ah, the good days!! everyone looking so much younger...where are they now etc etc.

dave q told me I must listen to 'back in the USA' but you know I keep forgetting! maybe its one for the retirement home.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 21 April 2005 09:27 (eighteen years ago) link

apologies if i missed mention of it further up the thread, but the track 'black to comm' alone is justification enough for mc5 veneration.

cb, Thursday, 21 April 2005 11:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Where's the best place to find a decent version of 'Black To Comm'? Had live recordings on a couple of vinyl bootlegs but the sound quality was super-terrible.

NickB (NickB), Thursday, 21 April 2005 12:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I have a bootleg of early REM doing "I Can Only Give You Everything" live, which I thought (for years) was one of their many great pre-chonic town songs until I got a cassette of "Babes in Arms". Totally great collection. "Sister Anne"!

theophilus jones (theophilus), Thursday, 21 April 2005 12:11 (eighteen years ago) link

The new Are You Ready to Testify has a fucking HUGELY FULFILLING rendition of "Black to Comm" that practically brings me to orgasm every time I hear it. There are two actually, but the 7:25 version (as opposed to the 11:00) features better sound quality.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Jesus, re-reading this thread, I forgot what a bitter pill Julio can be.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link

(I'm guilty of that too, by the way). This is not an attack.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 21 April 2005 13:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I just re-read the thread and I can't believe that a discussion of the MC5 devolved into petty arguments about Zappa and free jazz. Come on people! LEARN TO ROCK!

walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 21 April 2005 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link

walter r u jack black? gonna teach me abt the counterkulcha too?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 22 April 2005 10:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Who the fuck had the audacity to mention Zappa on an MC5 thread?!?!? Oh it was mark s! Tut tut. "Back In the USA" is a great pop album.

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 22 April 2005 10:19 (eighteen years ago) link

I saw an 'unauthorized' showing of the MC5 movie documentary recently. Wow, it was very entertaining. While I can see cynics snearing at the hippieish revolutionary chic aspects, and some of the allegedly corny rawk(a friend likened them to being similar to Grand Funk Railroad), I think they'd still find the movie fascinating. It's too bad Wayne Kramer and the filmmakers can't come to an agreement on releasing this officially. Great old photos, home movies, and interviews with band members, ex-wives, their former manager, and others help convey what the group was all about, and as a historical document of the times. I love the vocals and Wayne and Fred's powerful playing. While at times it's just another VH1 Behind the Music, it's still worth seeing.

steve-k, Friday, 22 April 2005 12:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I think they were pretty ordinary, for the most part. (get one copy of "space ritual" or "yeti", heh) I don't think they rocked very well either. They are, I think, one of the most overrated bands ever, and their posturing strikes me as being somewhat embarrasing. I'm sure there's at least one other mc5 thread around here - mc5 vs the stooges perhaps? I kind of miss julio's hardass manner, a bit.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 22 April 2005 13:15 (eighteen years ago) link

"Blue Oyster Cult do a better version of "Kick Out the Jams" "

I'd just like to say that this is shite.

everything, Friday, 22 April 2005 18:19 (eighteen years ago) link

The best MC5 record I've ever heard is a live bootleg from January 1, 1970 - it's now part of the Are You Ready To Testify box mentioned earlier. Big problem, though - 2 seconds of silence inserted between tracks. Hope they removed that for the new version.

I don't like the 5 much, though. I prefer Grand Funk. Just bought the remasters of their first 3 albums the other week. They sound amazing.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Friday, 22 April 2005 18:31 (eighteen years ago) link

walter r u jack black?

I wish.

(get one copy of "space ritual" or "yeti", heh)

Those are two of my all time faves but not really the same kind of thing are they? Yeti's a great proggy Jefferson Airplane trip and Space Ritual is a transcendently minimal slab of sludge more in the spirit of the Stooges and Blue Cheer. Neither have the hyper ice-pick-in-your-ear goood olde time rock-and-rool teenage lust of the MC5. Plus talking bout the MC5 makes me want to type and spell like a real idiot.

Seriously though, in what way were they pretty ordinary? Please point me to some more songs that sound like Looking at You, Human Being Lawnmower, or Future/Now because I'd really love to hear them. I can't see how anyone would think they're overrated either since they barely seem to be rated at all. They get about 1/20th of the love and acclaim that the Stooges get (for example) and they're at least half as good.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 22 April 2005 18:35 (eighteen years ago) link

"Blue Oyster Cult do a better version of "Kick Out the Jams" "

I'd just like to say that this is shite.

Three years later, I'll stand by that claim!

J (Jay), Friday, 22 April 2005 18:48 (eighteen years ago) link

See the movie doc if you get a chance...

steve-k, Friday, 22 April 2005 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

They are, I think, one of the most overrated bands ever, and their posturing strikes me as being somewhat embarrasing.

if you're basing this solely on Kick Out The Jams, then yes.. but that doofus Sinclair was out of the mix after that for the most part (thank god), and so their two studio albums have markedly less posturing (if at all). and walter otm as far as comparisons to Amon Duul and Hawkwind. actually walter otm in general.

Amon (eman), Friday, 22 April 2005 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link

"Over and Over" is one of their best songs. also Rob Tyner is one of the greatest rock vocalists imo. what a pair of lungs he had.

Amon (eman), Friday, 22 April 2005 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm suprised that no one's mentioned The Presidents Of The United States Of America and their goofy rewrite of KOTJ:

I've been elected to rock your asses 'til midnight
This is my term and I've shaved off my perm
but it's alright...

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 22 April 2005 19:42 (eighteen years ago) link

SKUNK (SONICLY SPEAKING)

It is perfect. That is all.

J (Jay), Friday, 22 April 2005 19:49 (eighteen years ago) link

OTM

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 22 April 2005 20:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Chris Ballew of TPOTUSA was one of their guests on the Seattle gig last summer.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 23 April 2005 01:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I am thinking of what Lester Bangs' reaction would be to someone calling the Five ordinary and telling people to buy Amon Duul and Hawkwind records.

Just reading this old Christgau piece on them and check this out:

"The warm-up was the Popcorn Blizzard (good), the Psychedelic Stooges (awful), and some blather about a religion called Zenta (weird)."

Whoa. Christgau saw the Popcorn Blizzard!

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 23 April 2005 04:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Wait, Popcorn Blizzard? That was Meatloaf right?

walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 23 April 2005 05:03 (eighteen years ago) link


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