What's The Deal With Saul Williams?

Whiney otm

e I had a feeling you wouldn't be hearing me and would just try to flip it and get mad, so whatever, be mad

aint not mad johnny d just sayin a) i pre-empted your criticism & b) you call out rappers for shit all the time, why is it suddenly an issue w/ you now??

We're really getting sidetracked from the real issue here, the use of the phrase "tard" in the album's title is pretty insensitive.

^^ shipley stealing PC-gone-mad jokes from britishers??

I'm specifically saying "white people don't get to tell black people how to present their own blackness" - I do think men can tell men to back off the misogyny, because while race & gender cross streams at plenty of places, they're different, and I think if you wanna argue that the stuff I'm calling "misogynist" is an essential part of representing blackness or is somehow inextricable from racial power relations, that'd be getting into some really shaky ground

you know what I mean? do you think I'm completely out of line to throw a flag on a white critic calling out a black artist for his associations with white producers?

Haha I think the only adequate approach to take here is that of Cocorosie's psychologist, who would say that while it's not prohibited for white singers to say "nigger," it is (shall we say) "very very interesting" that one would choose to put it in the song, then have to sing it to groups of people every third night for the next few years, then trade your drum loops for beatboxing from your black backing band (haha then get quoted in infamous "Kill Whitey" article), all leading up to a general chin-scratching steeple-fingered "very interesting, Cocorosie, you are very interested in black people."

-- nabisco, Wednesday, March 28, 2007 4:54 PM (6 months ago) Bookmark Link

During the first Lollapalooza tour, Jane's Addiction brings out Ice-T to perform a rendition of Sly & the Family Stone's "Don't Call Me Nigger, Whitey (Don't Call Me Whitey, Nigger)". Perry Farrell sings the white part, Ice-T sings the Black part. Black quartet Living Colour comes onstage afterward and bandleader Vernon Reid announces "I'll never be anyone's nigger for entertainment..."

^^ from that big ego trip book

from Saul's forum post I just quoted:

"I’ve also thought long and hard about all the discussion surrounding racial epithets etc. and chose this title as a means of furthering the dialogue while also showing how creativity will outlive and outshine hatred of any kind."

This isn't the guy you want to attack concerning race stuff, folks.

nobody's 'attacking' saul williams here - i dug 'twice the first time' and slam, hated his rock-rap bullshit, and only said his pattern of album naming here is 'suspect'

xpost OTM

He's probably thought about anything that anyone can say in this thread like 800 times over.

His rap-rock stuff is great!

calling someone's actions 'suspect' is not the same as attacking him, note the use of quotes

I imagine this album will sound a lot like El-P's album.

The real issue here is that Saul is hit and miss on his best day and Trent is miss and miss on everything in the last ten years or so.

Back of envelope math predicts a 75% suck ratio.

Still worth $5?

xposts

ok ok, I take that "attack" back - I should have used another verb.

I'd like a little spoon of ice cream before I buy the whole cone.

He'll probably put up some samples on that "spread the word" channel they're asking people to link to:

http://niggytardust.com/saulwilliams/spreadtheword

it's worth $5 to me just to support what they're doing, but even though i like trent he produced one of the worst tracks on saul's last record. basically i hope it doesn't sound like an el-p album!

http://emynd.blogspot.com/2005/07/its-new-day-and-better-day-is-coming.html

well his new album is pretty much a rock album. albeit one which acknowledges the existence of rhythm.
-- The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 21:11 (2 years ago) Link

ban sasha frere jones the plagiarist.

i don't like the catchdubs mix, if only because saul's shit sounds worse than it does over his own beats

at least sasha didnt say genre divisions were 'apartheid' that 'strip each artist down to nigger'

haha no i was joking that sfj plagiarized lex. carry on.

very clever

i try my best.

http://emynd.blogspot.com/2005/07/its-new-day-and-better-day-is-coming.html

-- and what, Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:58 PM

Was this an indication of approval or disapproval?

trust dolphins

I'm willing to give this a chance- I like the Kill Memory Crash remix of one of his tracks, at least- but the video on his Myspace (scroll down)? Uh...

and wtf man you seem to have no problem being a white dude telling black artists what their community responsibilities are in every rap thread no matter how tedious or self-parodic it gets

-- and what, Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:19 PM (Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:19 PM) Bookmark Link

"and wtf"

Fuck. I have no use for Saul Williams, but same as that other act I have no use for, it's free, so why the hell not. And I like Rez sometimes. And I liked parts of that El-P album that this might sound like, so again, why the hell not.

you could just spent $5 on a used 12" of puffy's victory with nin remix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqg0Zl8tDuI

1st rap record ever bought by BIG HOOS aka the steendriver

I liked some of Amethyst Rock Star, but I listened to a track (the single?) from this last night and it was real ho hum, murky subpar Reznor production just like Year Zero. Maybe I'll get this with the "pay nothing" option just to check it out, that's what I did with the Radiohead and I was glad I didn't pay anything because I didn't really enjoy that album at all.

amethyst rock star was garbage

his joint on the infesticons LP was nice tho ('monkey theme')

hey, i said i liked some of it (mostly the crazy over the top dnb song from the DJ Krust album).

well his new album is pretty much a rock album. albeit one which acknowledges the existence of rhythm.
-- The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 26 April 2005 21:11 (2 years ago) Link

Lex's favourite rappers ever are Saul Williams and Princess Superstar

Ban the early 2000s.

good to see he's continuing in breaking down the walls of genre with his strong anti-mainstream works like
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e7/Saw2sountrack.jpg/200px-Saw2sountrack.jpg
1. "Irresponsible Hate Anthem" (Venus Head Trap Mix) – Marilyn Manson – 3:41
2. "Sound Effects and Over Dramatics" – The Used – 3:28
3. "Forget to Remember" – Mudvayne – 3:33
4. "September" – Bloodsimple – 3:38
5. "Blood (Empty Promises)" – Papa Roach – 2:56
6. "Rev. 22:20" (Rev. 4:20 Mix) – Puscifer – 4:47
7. "Pieces" – Sevendust – 3:06
8. "Rodent" (Ken "Hiwatt" Marshall/DDT Mix) – Skinny Puppy – 5:00
9. "Burn the Witch" (Unkle Variation) – Queens of the Stone Age – 3:04
10. "Holy" – A Band Called Pain – 3:43
11. "Three Fingers" – Buckethead and Friends featuring Saul Williams – 3:00
12. "Home Invasion Robbery" – The Legion of Doom – 4:11
13. "Caliente (Dark Entries)" – Revolting Cocks – 4:28
14. "Step Up" – Opiate For The Masses – 3:24
15. "Don't Forget the Rules" (Score) – Charlie Clouser – 5:02

the guy who just made an album with Trent Reznor probably won't be devastated that you pointed out the techno-metal soundtrack he appeared on.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41H5dwMniXL._AA240_.jpg

1. "(Can't You) Trip Like I Do" - Filter & The Crystal Method – 4:28
2. "Long Hard Road Out of Hell" - Marilyn Manson & Sneaker Pimps – 4:21
3. "Satan" - Orbital & Kirk Hammett/Metallica – 3:45
4. "Kick the P.A." - Korn & The Dust Brothers – 3:21
5. "Tiny Rubberband" - Butthole Surfers & Moby – 4:12
6. "For Whom the Bell Tolls (The Irony of it All)" - Metallica & DJ Spooky – 4:39
7. "Torn Apart" - Stabbing Westward & Wink – 4:53
8. "Skin Up Pin Up" - Mansun & 808 State – 5:27
9. "One Man Army" - The Prodigy & Tom Morello/Rage Against the Machine – 4:14
10. "Spawn" - Silverchair & Vitro – 4:28
11. "T-4 Strain" - Henry Rollins & Goldie – 5:19
12. "Familiar" - Incubus & DJ Greyboy – 3:22
13. "No Remorse (I Wanna Die)" - Slayer & Atari Teenage Riot – 4:16
14. "A Plane Scraped its Belly on a Sooty Yellow Moon" - Soul Coughing & Roni Size – 5:26

once upon a time jam master jay bought some hard rock records and people joked about it on the internet forever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqg0Zl8tDuI

-- and what, Friday, October 26, 2007 4:02 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

1st rap record ever bought by BIG HOOS aka the steendriver

-- and what, Friday, October 26, 2007 4:02 PM

The section with Biggie is still kinda alright, but Christ I'd forgotten how awful that was.

the only saul williams thing i ever really liked were the very very early tracks, "elohim", "ohm" and "twice the first time" ... somehow he didn't really live up to the promise of the early tracks.

in my dreams though, this NIN + saul collaboration sounds like the best tracks from "welcome to the afterfuture"

are you kidding that remix is the shit

in my dreams though, this NIN + saul collaboration sounds like the best tracks from "welcome to the afterfuture"

-- moonship journey to baja, Friday, October 26, 2007 3:03 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

lol

i read the sales figures on that once, something like 873 copies sold... crazy that i was one of em back in 00

STARSHIP NIGGA!!! OUTERSPACE MOTHERFUCKER!!!