PRE-MODERN JAZZ - school me?

Inexplicably, the Ellington Blanton-Webster Band set is out of print.

Wow, that's crazy! Yeah, there's a Japanese import of Never No Lament available. I still have the earlier one (just called The Blanton Webster Band); sounds fine to me, I'm not much of an audiophile when it comes to vintage jazz.

for Basie my pick is 'The Atomic Mr. Basie', it has great sound/tunes/performances and a cool cover. honestly i never went far beyond that.

every now and then i come very close to buying those big recent mosaic ellington box sets, which I think cover the 30s/early 40s - i've read that they have far superior sound to anything previously released. pricey though...

Count Basie, Complete Original American Decca Recordings

sooo... which of these 3CD sets are people referring to? A Spain-only import seems unlikely...

http://www.discogs.com/Count-Basie-The-Original-American-Decca-Recordings/release/2087838

or

http://www.discogs.com/Count-Basie-Complete-Original-American-Decca-Recordings/release/4642247

or something else?

every now and then i come very close to buying those big recent mosaic ellington box sets, which I think cover the 30s/early 40s - i've read that they have far superior sound to anything previously released. pricey though...

― tylerw, Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:34 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I really wanna get this one:
http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=248-MD-CD

I'd heard the sound is great, too -- Mosaic can be counted on for that.

The sound on Never No Lament is definitely fuller than on the previous (80s) RCA issue, but has added/annoying distortion in spots (particularly "Jack The Bear"). It's frustrating that this particular era of Ellington hasn't yet gotten the reissue/remastering treatment it deserves.

Nice call, Tarfumes, on A Study in Frustration ... that set sounds great and is also useful to compare to Duke, Basie, and Goodman.

I was surprised to learn that Sun Ra played and arranged for Henderson's band in the late 40s!

Sleeve, the first linked Count Basie Decca 3xCD in my case. But it looks like they are identical aside from the artwork?

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Decca-Recordings-1937-1939/dp/B000003N3G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424880213&sr=8-1&keywords=count+basie

Yes, I should have mentioned the Nat King Cole Trio, especially incl. guitarist Oscar Moore. Also should have mentioned Herbie Nichols. He's bop, but not in any historically familiar way; mainly---he's Herbie Nichols!
Cab Calloway, whom I think of as pre-rock rock, in some ways (ditto Charlie Christian), and Louis Prima & Keely Smith with Sam Butera and the Witnesses--but they all have plenty jazz appeal too (well maybe not Prima's crew as much, but still great). Slim Galliard's guitar x vocal stylings (his own language, or dialect of jive mothertongue, at least).

There are a fair few comparisons to be made between Calloway and Armstrong. They both have surprisingly gothy tendencies

When it comes to bebop, don't forget this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrO45Tzvhxg

Would add Lester Young Complete Aladdin Recordings from 45-47 as a collection I've had for about 10 years and am always in the mood to listen to.

I'm having a little disconnect about bop recommendations ITT because I think of it as where jazz crossed over from pre-modern to modern history. It's where jazz changed from a dance music to a chamber music. But never mind that, I'm glad for recommendations regardless of era.

The 1973 comp "Stars of the Apollo" is a great place to start sampling- It has a lot of the artists already mentioned, and it tends towards novelty numbers in a good way: immediately accessible with a raunchy sensibility. The last side shows how these sort of numbers morphed into r'n'b and modern jazz, too.

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Stars-Of-The-Apollo-Theatre/release/2831186

http://open.spotify.com/album/5eGsNHVy0Rfhmxl0QA3noD

oh man that looks great

If you're really into bass playing, this is a great comp.
http://www.dust-digital.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dtd-04_600.jpg

sooo... which of these 3CD sets are people referring to? A Spain-only import seems unlikely...

I have the second one you linked.

I also have that bass box; pretty great.

This Lionel Hampton set kinda serves as a survey of small group swing in the late '30s--it is Hampton as featured player (on vibes, drums, vocals or piano) with over 20 different all star groups--

http://www.discogs.com/Lionel-Hampton-The-Complete-Lionel-Hampton-Victor-Sessions-1937-1941/release/2951249

And here's a great collection of small group non-commercial jazz from the '40s recorded for a tiny label--features a ton of major & minor players at their best, prime sound quality, and touches on the transition from swing to bop--

http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/the_keynote_jazz_collection_1941-1947_11-cd_box_set-cd-6062.html

I've found the Properbox releases are pretty much always well-selected overviews for swing & early bop (plus have the advantage of drawing from multiple labels) & often trump the more expensive major label releases of the same material.

Stars of The Apollo was a huge part of my education, re early and progressive jazz, also those novelty numbers, ranging from "I Want A Hot Dog For My Roll" tp the original "I Put A Spell On You," by Screamin' Jay Hawkins. Also "Reefer Man," by I forget who, but it's cheerful and absurdist. Also maybe a novelty hit in its time: the very plain-spoken, aggressive androgyny of "Gimme A Pigfoot (also a reefer, and a bottle o' beer) of Bessie Smith, who, come to think of it, sounds oike she might be an inspiration for Howlin' Wolf.
The relationship of swing to bop is v. inneresting, and check Parker's early work with Kansas City bandleaser Jay McShann; also, I'd say, Goodman-Charles-Christian-Krupa, live on the radio, competing with bop, sounds like; kind of a para-bop at times (r is that historical listening only?)
Still got a King Pleaure twofer, The Source, where he croons and wails words over re-recorded bop-associated material, sometimes with the original soloists, I think. His biggest hit was probably "Moody's Mood For Love," based on the excellent (and evern much later, sometimes asskicking) James Moody's version of "I'm In The Mood For Love." Also a wonderful re-set of Parker's "Kansas City" (not the r&b/rock hit), "Redtop" and others: he could be romantic, rough-edged, witty---some say he just ripped off Eddie Jefferson, but the Jefferson I've heard doesn't have nearly as much flair, as much old-time/anytime clever appeal.

And there's Ira Gitler's Swing To Bop, An Oral History of the Transition..., which led to me to a lot of good stuff.

King Pleasure could sing his own new words to melodic lines established, re-composed, you could say, by improvised, previously recorded solos, on shrewdly selected jazz sides, ones that already had a measure of crossover appeal, or potential. Lambert, Hendricks & Ross did it too, but they were modernistic, baby; KP had the old & new school appeal.

these sets were pretty revelatory for me
http://www.allenlowe.com//alpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/devilintune-comp.jpg
in some ways it sort of does away with the "great man" theory of jazz, instead highlighting regional scenes, weird movements, revivals etc. but also just a ton of great music.
http://www.allenlowe.com/for-sale/

One less heralded early jazz players I love is Don Byas. Check out how modern he sounds, but with a mellifluous tone and proximity to the melody that became more rarely heard after bop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsooysJ8KkU

There's a set of his expatriate recordings from Paris that is really marvelous.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ksqQjcxeL._SY355_.jpg

the Allen Lowe book that is the basis for those Devilin' Tune sets looks really interesting, I'm going to grab that from the library

Don't know if there's a better thread for this, but I've really been enjoying revisiting Erroll Garner lately:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMeMxhciMPk

I love that super-draggy phrasing and lush interior harmony over the very spare rhythm section, makes me want to make a film just to use it in the opening credits.

I just got a copy of The Complete Concert By the Sea. It is wonderful music. He plays with so much warmth.

I like Jimmy Lyons's introduction on the second disc: "If you enjoy being fractured, please be now fractured by Erroll Garner."