Is this anti-semitism?

and as israel was partially founded as a response to european antisemitism (both from the pov of early zionists + the UN countries who voted for its existence) it's not insane at all for bibi to respond to european antisemitism by saying, 'hey, this is why we founded israel.'

"Europe is dangerous for Jews" seems to me to be demonstrably false, given that by any indicator Western European (at least) societies are safer by pretty much any measure than either the USA or Israel, and so far as I am able to tell this applies to Jewish communities as much as any others. This does not mean that there isn't a problem with anti-Semitism in Europe, of course.

http://dsadevil.blogspot.com/2015/02/outward-bound.html

Last week, a former colleague of mine from Illinois emailed me about a German decision where torching a synagogue was not anti-Semitic, just "criticism of Israel" (not the first time I've heard that argument). And earlier this week, a law school classmate sent me an Austrian prosecutor's conclusion that putting up a picture of Hitler captioned with "I could have annihilated all the Jews in the world, but I left some of them alive so you will know why I was killing them..." was likewise just a means of exposure displeasure with Israel. Seriously, this argument has to be bounded somewhere, yes?

Oh, and half of all racist attacks in France are directed at Jews, who constitute one percent of the population. Makes me glad to have the #JewishPrivilege of living in the United States, where we're only the second most common (per capita) victim of hate crimes.

Yeah, honestly, I've not looked at the statistics/numbers (and maybe I should), but last I heard the US was the safest place for Jews, not Europe.

Neil S seems to be conflating general safety with where are Jews least likely to be victims of racism, hate crime, etc., which albeit is sometimes hard to quantify (racism comes in many ways).

Thanks, mordy. I am quite on edge at the moment, I don't mean to be too much of an asshole. Realizing that one of the guys talking at the attacked meeting was an old professor of mine from college. A girl from work was at the synagogue just a few hours before the shooting - it's at one of the most crowded streets in Denmark. And the murderer was killed a few blocks from where I used to live. It does all of a sudden become pretty close, and pretty stressful.

But the attacks on Bibi weren't 'kneejerk'. Nobody was talking about Israel until he inserted himself in the conversation, with his stupid comments. And I would be okay if he said 'hey, this is why we founded Israel', but that wasn't what he said. This is me cutting and pasting, but he did say: 'Obviously Jews deserve protection in every country, but...' Like, that isn't a sentence that anyone should put a 'but' behind, no matter what is the followup (the followup is ...'but we say to the Jews, to our brothers and sisters: ‘Israel is your home') He said 'Israel is the home of every Jew.'

Also, with the other moves Netanyahu is making at the moment, I don't think it's unfair to accuse him of cynisism. I just read his speech about the speech in Washington. I hate him.

Jews have been in Denmark for hundreds of years. They were made citizens back in the beginning of the nineteenth century. Most of them survived the German occupation. We haven't had a deadly terror attack on anyone in almost thirty years. The standard of living is high, and the murder rate is low. I don't think Jews are much safer elsewhere but here.

According to estimated numbers of populations in the US and FBI data, per capita, Jews make up the largest, not second largest, group of hate crime victims in the US:

(as a percentage of each group)
Jewish Black LBGT
0.00012 0.00004 0.000091

oops there go my spaces

does that statistic only capture hate crimes where a conviction was obtained? it is notorious that prosecutors are reluctant to bring charges under hate crime statutes because the burden of evidence is harder to meet than simply proving that a crime was committed by the assailant. when you add that filter, it is hard to say if it skews the distribution.

There is an election coming up in Israel, just to give a little (more) context to Netanyahu's remarks.

Ok fine ("Bibi")'s a jerk but is he really the villain of this event? I expect to hear that ppl fucking hate Islamist terrorists, not the PM of Israel.

yes let's not hold the head of an alleged democracy to a different standard than that for assassins. this trick is always boring.

i will consider your analogizing Netanyahu to Al Sharpton as throwing in the towel, though

i think everyone but maybe u can agree that we should treat burning ppl alive as a more serious offense than giving a speech about the dangers of iranian nukes.

'bibi' has done both, so

i wonder if you're aware that your contributions to almost every discussion on ilx are totally worthless

can we lock you two in a room? you already have complementary names.

tbh i had no idea there was still a Temani community in yemen, but maybe not for much longer:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/19/world/middleeast/persecution-defines-life-for-yemens-few-jews.html

they're one of the few jewish groups that have a custom/tradition that allows them to eat kosher locusts. other groups (like all ashkenazim) lost the tradition and so it's not in the kosher canon

According to Yemenite tradition the four types of kosher locust in the Torah are:

The red locust (Hebrew: ארבה, Arbeh, Aramaic: גובאי, Govei, Arabic: الجراد, Al-Jaraad).
The spotted gray locust (Hebrew: חרגול, Chargol Aramaic: ניפול, Nippul, Arabic: الحرجوان, Al-Harjawaan).
The white locust (Hebrew: חגב, Chagav, Aramaic: גדיאן, Gadayin, Arabic: الجندب, Al-Jundub).
The yellow locust (Hebrew: סלעם, Sal'am, Aramaic: רשון, Rashona, Arabic: الدبا, Al-Daba).

did u inform lex that you were gonna talk about the canon

wow, i honestly had no idea there were more than a tiny handful of jews left in yemen.

depends what you consider a handful: "The Houthis, who now dominate the country, are particularly strong in the two places with confirmed remaining Yemeni Jews: here in Raida, where there are 55 Jews, and in Sana, the capital, where a small number of others live under what amounts to house arrest by the Houthi leadership."

interestingly, tho way off-topic from temanim, a lot of nearly immigrated kosher jews to the US weren't sure whether it would be okay to eat turkey bc they didn't have a tradition for it being kosher (a giraffe is also theoretically kosher but there's no tradition for how to slaughter it). the custom eventually spread throughout europe after the early explorers of the americas brought them back, but for a while it was controversial. i guess turkeys were too delicious to prohibit tho.

meanwhile no one (but me) is clamoring for a new kashrut custom for locusts

more of the same from sweden

this game crusader kings 2 has been free on steam this week and i've been playing a little. there are different plots you can execute by spending prestige (along the lines of 'visit a holy site,' 'invite a nobel to court,' etc) and two of them are 'borrow money from the jews' and 'expel the jews,' executing both of which can net you a one-time quick influx of like 5,000 /currency/. i don't have any problem w/ its inclusion in a game committed to accurately depicting the messy religious politics of like 15th century europe (i mean, it's a game about the crusades so i don't think sensitivity should be emphasized), but i do feel a little weird about a mechanic that can net u the biggest immediate currency gain in the game, therefore almost always making it - on a gamey level - the right move.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/debate-on-a-jewish-student-at-ucla.html

LOS ANGELES — It seemed like routine business for the student council at the University of California, Los Angeles: confirming the nomination of Rachel Beyda, a second-year economics major who wants to be a lawyer someday, to the council’s Judicial Board.

Until it came time for questions.

“Given that you are a Jewish student and very active in the Jewish community,” Fabienne Roth, a member of the Undergraduate Students Association Council, began, looking at Ms. Beyda at the other end of the room, “how do you see yourself being able to maintain an unbiased view?”

For the next 40 minutes, after Ms. Beyda was dispatched from the room, the council tangled in a debate about whether her faith and affiliation with Jewish organizations, including her sorority and Hillel, a popular student group, meant she would be biased in dealing with sensitive governance questions that come before the board, which is the campus equivalent of the Supreme Court.

The discussion, recorded in written minutes and captured on video, seemed to echo the kind of questions, prejudices and tropes — particularly about divided loyalties — that have plagued Jews across the globe for centuries, students and Jewish leaders said.

The council, in a meeting that took place on Feb. 10, voted first to reject Ms. Beyda’s nomination, with four members against her. Then, at the prodding of a faculty adviser there who pointed out that belonging to Jewish organizations was not a conflict of interest, the students revisited the question and unanimously put her on the board.

holy shit

and yes, that is anti-semitism, for those wondering.

i remember arab (muslim and christian) students getting a similar treatment (questioning their ability to make decisions without "bias") when i was in school. it was awful then, and it's awful now.

and... a bunch of disgusting comments on that article prove is point, e.g.

Unfortunately, these students are paying the price for Israel's aggression again Palestine and Palestinians. While the Baby Boomer generation more or less acquiesced in the human rights violations and war crimes committed by Israel in its quest to annihilate the Palestinian people, we don't. We are more aware of Israel's actions and therefore it is not unreasonable to question her. It is regrettable but the blame belongs with Israel, not the student. But she pays the price.

imagine saying that US muslims "pay the price" for ISIS violence with harrassment. oh wait, plenty of people—on the right-wing—would say something like that. pot, meet kettle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBJXtTIbDTo

awwww

I was going to ask what kind of decisions a student organization might possibly have to make that being Jewish could possibly bias them but then I remembered that these fucking morons think that an important part of college is divesting from Israel

the comments (from all sides) on all the articles about this UCLA thing make me despair. are people really that knee-jerk and stupid?

(note to self: stop reading comments on news articles)

"(from all sides)" wouldn't want to be accused of bias yrself ;)

I think of course a person active in Hillel might possibly have a "bias" about Israel, but so might a person in a Muslim student org, or any other student for that matter. Maybe I don't understand what a university student council judicial committee does, but I don't really understand what a position on Israel would have to do with anything.

but then I remembered that these fucking morons think that an important part of college is divesting from Israel

This, and the academic boycotts in general (BDS movement), are imo one of the more depressing phenomena in academia today.

Not just in academia but the arts:

http://news.artnet.com/art-world/jeremy-deller-ed-atkins-and-hundreds-of-uk-artists-support-cultural-boycott-of-israel-256543/

But what's being discussed above (re nytimes article linked by amateurist) is of course worse than that (not discriminating against "Israel," but an American Jewish student in an American university).

xp right that's the thing. even if she was a member of the ZOA, one of the requirements for holding student office in a California public research university should not be being unbiased on Israel. are these kids so bored that they have no actual classes to study for and actual on-campus issues to organize about?

Well, Israel/Palestine is the defining issue of our times.

Or the end times, depending.

PS I have no problem with individually chosen boycotts.

I have a problem with academics voting for institutional boycotts (affecting everyone in a university or organization, whether they agree or not).

lol @ this: "It should be pointed out that the four students who opposed Ms. Beyda were Fabienne Roth, from Switzerland, Negeen Sadeghi-Movahed, an Iranian-American, Manjot Singh, a Sikh, and Sofia Moreno Haq, a member of the Muslim Student Association."

Hey, I don't want to make assumptions. But I will say I suspect her Swiss nationality may be impairing her impartiality. They should kick her out.

"Ms. Roth, if the U.S. went to war with Switzerland ... what side would you be on?"

I think of course a person active in Hillel might possibly have a "bias" about Israel, but so might a person in a Muslim student org, or any other student for that matter. Maybe I don't understand what a university student council judicial committee does, but I don't really understand what a position on Israel would have to do with anything.

― five six and (man alive), Friday, 6 March 2015 15:38 (33 minutes ago) Permalink

issues related to BDS have previously come up before the student judicial board. recently, some student gov't leaders were given all-expenses-paid trips to israel by AJC and ADL, which in the former case was designed explicitly for American-Jewish campus leaders to help fight BDS efforts. a petition was filed (by members of a pro-Palestine student org) with the judicial board saying that the two Jewish student gov't leaders had violated the ethics rules concerning student gov't by accepting these free trips. i actually think they may have had a point (note: it helps if you read UCLA's ethical code for student gov't).

so that issue was almost certainly lurking in the BG -- unstated -- in this whole current issue. that doesn't make the line of questioning any less disgusting. having opinions—much less being of a certain religious/ethnic group—can't possibly be a disqualification for the student judicial board. if so, it would be a board with no members.

disgusted by the number of folks online who want to explain away what seems to me a textbook case of anti-semitism, admittedly among people who would be loathe to identify as anti-semites (but who would?).

"roth" is often a jewish name; it's very possible that student was jewish. doesn't make it any better.

"having opinions—much less being of a certain religious/ethnic group—can't possibly be a disqualification for the student judicial board" <<<< a lot of the defenses seem to miss this point. even if she was pro-Israel, having a political opinion that differs from the majority opinion cannot be a disqualification for a judicial board esp on an issue that has 0% to do w/ the life of a UCLA student.

well, like i mention above, i'm sure that the free-Israel-trip issue, which /had/ come up before the student judicial board, was in the back of the members' minds. so in a broad sense, the issue of BDS is "relevant" to the judicial board. but the idea that she could not impartially judge a possible ethics violation b/c of her ethic background/group affiliation is (we all seem to agree) gross, just as it would be gross if they had questioned a member of a pro-Palestine group whether her Arab or Muslim identity would get in the way of her ability to adjudicate impartially.

"roth" is often a jewish name; it's very possible that student was jewish. doesn't make it any better.

Are there many Jews in Switzerland? I know plenty money/gold/artworks stolen from Jews has ended up in Switzerland over the years.

I think it's important to note that they wouldn't have asked it of a Palestinian student since the phenomenon of Israel criticism in universities is often, as in the rest of the world, more or less a pretext for antisemitism.

^ well yeah exactly

even if she was pro-Israel, having a political opinion that differs from the majority opinion cannot be a disqualification for a judicial board esp

before i type my mealymouthed but but but, yes of course this is antisemitism. it's beyond clear that they thought her being a jew was a disqualification.

but really it depends on the degree of "difference from the majority opinion." we would not expect a white nationalist or even an active MRA type dude to be particularly fair in dealing with student disputes. there are people that "we all" could agree should not be in a position of judgment over others. but the lines around that category get pretty fuzzy.

if your view of israel is that it's a racist settler state then what other conclusion can you draw?
Sadeghi-Movahed, Singh, and Haq (and... Roth?) didn't think Beyda would be fair in judging people such as themselves (if you want to extend any generosity to them at all). just as they were unfair in judging Beyda in the same turn.

there's a kind of depressing zero-sum quality to these kinds of jewish-muslim disputes that my beloved deracinated liberalism is powerless to resolve.

er xps, the "exatly" was to amateurist