yeah i'm not blaming or indicting either of them, your analysis of where they came from and how they ended up backstage together is totally OTM
― when is the new Jim O'Rourke album coming out (spazzmatazz), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 21:53 (nine years ago) link
It's not that Billy's a square, it's that he's pretty unsympathetic. It's one thing to be a poseur, which is silly to begin with, but by many accounts he is also an asshole, which makes the former less forgivable. I'm not a fan of the band aside from a few songs, but he puts himself in a pretty untenable position by embracing Rush and Boston (or whatever) but also wanting to be cool, by being a shredder but also wanting to be part of the anti-shred crowd, by tipping his hat to the humility and humanity of Cheap Trick but also aiming for the otherworldly haze My Bloody Valentine. But really, he's just apparently not a very nice guy.
Granted, as a very long time fan of SY, I've always thought Kim and Thurston came off terribly as people in interviews, too. As bad as Corgan but for totally different reasons: snobby, arrogant, pretentious, no fun. But since they're "cool," fewer folks call them on it, especially with an easy target like BC walking around saying "pay attention to me!"
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 22:26 (nine years ago) link
Tbf, Corgan actually teetered on the cusp of personal redemption for a bit. Maybe c. Adore, which was a pretty emotional, accessible album, when the band played that huge free show here for charity. (http://www.mtv.com/news/300010/pumpkins-to-play-huge-hometown-charity-show/). But since the band came back from the dead he's been pretty bitter, sour, as if he's not even trying to be liked anymore.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 22:28 (nine years ago) link
kinda surprised tht Corgan was into SY at all tbh
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 3, 2015 6:44 PM (Yesterday)
hard to imagine gish & siamese dream arising absent at least second-hand influence from the evol thru daydream run of sy albums
― A Severus of Snapes (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 22:46 (nine years ago) link
Really? I don't really hear any similarities, beyond the use of guitars.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 22:55 (nine years ago) link
how exactly is billy an asshole?
― It's strange to me too. But we're talking about praxis, man. (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 23:00 (nine years ago) link
Basically - ironically? - by many accounts doing a lot of what he complains about in the Kim tirade: ignoring people, blowing people off, being unfriendly, being rude, abandoning old friends, etc. That might be general default celebrity behavior, but Chicago doesn't usually react well to that kind of stuff.
Maybe he's a sweetheart, but that does not seem to be the take of people I know who have had dealings/run-ins with him, or the times I've personally seen him be a diva.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 23:26 (nine years ago) link
iirc once heard a story from a guy who got to hear billy have a phone conversation with his girlfriend after a concert in Dayton circa Gish, promising he was going fuck someone that night.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 23:28 (nine years ago) link
i don't think there's anything unsympathetic about wanting all of those things, and i think he made a convincing case through his music.
the idea that you can't be cool if-you like a certain band-you play guitar solos and are obsessed with technical proficiency -you make music inspired by dozens and dozens of disparate bands and sounds and stylesis bullshit.
but Billy is a huge asshole. smashing pumpkins fans have their reasons why, people that hate Corgan usually have others.
the smashing pumpkins died in 2000. he's been a solo act ever since, no matter the moniker at the time. he's clearly not that happy with how things turned out. his bitterness and delusional/nonsensical comments in interviews is just really sad to me. he knows, or thinks, his best days are behind him. but still i think he'll have a Dylan-esque renaissance as he goes through his fifties and sixties.
― when is the new Jim O'Rourke album coming out (spazzmatazz), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 23:29 (nine years ago) link
actually the anecdote was told in dayton but i dunno if the concert was there xpost
― da croupier, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 23:30 (nine years ago) link
the whole band is a morality play. the smashing pumpkins are an avant garde art rock band and billy corgan is a performance artist. his attitudes and behavior towards women are indefensible. part of the pleasure of being an SP fan is learning from where he got it wrong and where it got it right, in all aspects, from love to indie rock politics.
― when is the new Jim O'Rourke album coming out (spazzmatazz), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 23:47 (nine years ago) link
If Kim comes off as too cool or unfriendly I also think it's worth considering how many weird band dudes, creeps, asshole guys she probably had to deal with living in the rock world.
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 February 2015 02:13 (nine years ago) link
Think of how many contemptuous stray kittens Billy has had to deal with
― It's strange to me too. But we're talking about praxis, man. (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 5 February 2015 02:17 (nine years ago) link
Will I!
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 5 February 2015 02:23 (nine years ago) link
http://www.more-japan.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/rage.jpg
― It's strange to me too. But we're talking about praxis, man. (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 5 February 2015 02:31 (nine years ago) link
I'm not a fan of the band aside from a few songs, but he puts himself in a pretty untenable position by embracing Rush and Boston (or whatever)
^I'd rather listen to Rush and Boston than anything by Sonic Youth or any of the "cool" bands you're supposed to like. Ive never understood why liking these bands is "untenable"
― Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:04 (nine years ago) link
as you demonstrate, claiming allegiance to both Rush/Boston AND noiserock Sonic Youth dudes = not something that really comes off as genuine. opposing aesthetics.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:05 (nine years ago) link
that's why it's untenable
lol at the concept of opposing aesthetics generally - aesthetics aren't really ideologies. it's perfectly possible, and in fact very common, to genuinely love both Boston and Sonic Youth, or Rush and the Shaggs, and all manner of music coming from disparate places. the idea of having an aesthetic that makes it "inconsistent" or "untenable" to like one kind of music while also liking another kind of music that proceeds from a different set of assumptions than the first...that's greasy kids' stuff, music is vast and most musicians I know think of it as a giant well of pleasure, not Jets and Sharks
― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:19 (nine years ago) link
yeah but this was the 90s, there was a war on
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:25 (nine years ago) link
(altho I don't think I actually know anybody who likes Rush and the Shaggs tbh - unless that's you)
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:26 (nine years ago) link
I mean I agree w you Ray, but lots of people don't listen to music that way and do draw battle lines between aesthetics. It may be stupid, but people do it (Kim Gordon acknowledges as much in her quote). Granted this is less common with musicians.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:27 (nine years ago) link
Maybe BC is the real elitist here thinking listening to Rush/Boston is some kind of maverick thing to do.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:35 (nine years ago) link
Isn't she just using "in no way punk rock" as a synonym for corny here? I mean, maybe Kim Gordon really was viewing the world through a Maximum RocknRoll purity lens at the age of 40, but my guess is that it was more about "This guy is way too thirsty for the validation of rock fame" than "He likes Rush and Boston"
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:39 (nine years ago) link
Also UMS totally otm in multiple posts. xp
― intheblanks, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:40 (nine years ago) link
"ok kim, billy may be a star tantrum-prone asshole, but where do you get off using punk rock as a shorthand for cool?"
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:51 (nine years ago) link
all billy ever wanted to do is make great music for everyone and challenge the hipster paradigm...
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:52 (nine years ago) link
heard the pumpkins' "landslide" on the radio and i'd like to reaffirm that billy has done REALLY WELL for himself considering he sings like jon lovitz as harvey feinstein doing "love to love you baby"
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:56 (nine years ago) link
fierstein, rather
Billy Corgan = Bill ClintonSonic Youth = Mitt Romney
― Poliopolice, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:02 (nine years ago) link
Poliopolice = Maureen Dowd
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:02 (nine years ago) link
I like both Boston & Sonic Youth, Rush suck hard though
― example (crüt), Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:20 (nine years ago) link
elephant in the room re: Boston & Sonic Youth
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:22 (nine years ago) link
(and Kim and Billco too)
I didn't mean to disparage Rush (though fuck Boston). I meant that Corgan used to embrace these supposedly uncool bands, because to hell with what's fashionable, man! But at the same he so clearly, vocally wanted to be fashionable. Like, he could hang with Rick Nielsen at will, but his eye was on Sonic Youth, or Pavement, or all these people at the cool party he wasn't invited to. Very insecure.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:27 (nine years ago) link
Boston is so much better than Rush. Sheesh!
― how's life, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:28 (nine years ago) link
^ Said nobody, ever.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:30 (nine years ago) link
And by "Boston" I assume you mean their first album.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:31 (nine years ago) link
The gauntlet has been thrown!
Boston vs. Rush
― how's life, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:31 (nine years ago) link
he's just a teenager in love
― nauru, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:57 (nine years ago) link
if you are puzzled why kims thayil or gordon might have had problems with billy corgan then you really should meet the man. it's not because he loves uncool records. it's about personality and behaviour.
also, smashing pumpkins' best song, drown, always sounded to me like a Boston song segueing into a Sonic Youth song. i remember him almost playing drown at brixton academy in 1993, but he stopped after strumming the opening riff because the uk music press had been horrible to him that week and he said london didn't deserve it. then he came on dressed as a clown for the encore because everett true had called him a clown in a review.
again, it's about personality and behaviour.
― #Research (stevie), Friday, 6 February 2015 09:37 (nine years ago) link
Whereas, he seemd to take a holiday from himself when he was in New Order.
― Mark G, Friday, 6 February 2015 12:11 (nine years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFnWKP7W0AAFcJ4.jpg
― Matt DC, Friday, 22 May 2015 13:57 (eight years ago) link
wait, is billy the surprise for three lucky winners? they'll need a big fuckin box to fit him in
― bizarro gazzara, Friday, 22 May 2015 13:58 (eight years ago) link
hahahaha came here to post that pic
― global tetrahedron, Friday, 22 May 2015 14:46 (eight years ago) link
The "surprise" is a tantrum from Billy, btw.
― Matt DC, Friday, 22 May 2015 15:08 (eight years ago) link
A wrestling match in a steel cage (despite all his rage).
― nashwan, Friday, 22 May 2015 15:12 (eight years ago) link
Oh, I thought this was gonna be about Fruity
http://loudwire.com/marilyn-manson-billy-corgan-band-flavor-flav-jenna-jameson/
― cause baby, now we got dad bod (how's life), Friday, 22 May 2015 15:18 (eight years ago) link
small-batch foods
― Mr. Murphy in the wine bar. (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 May 2015 15:18 (eight years ago) link
Ric Ocasek's Troublizing is an underrated means of getting a mid-'90s Corgan fix
― example (crüt), Monday, 6 July 2015 13:05 (eight years ago) link