ILM Ballot Polls for 2014 and beyond -- order, timing, "I would have voted if I'd known about it," etc

I mean, I'm not saying I spend those two-week periods just painstakingly working over the ballot with a jeweler's loupe and little implements, but even (or especially!) for artists I like a lot, there is some period of listening to shit on shuffle, realizing a song is better in the speakers than it seemed 'on paper,' etc. etc.

I admit I also just like the excuse of being able to say "these are the weeks of Paul Simon" and getting reacquainted with the catalog, which I'm actually less likely to do with the song-by-song rollout. It's an opportunity for this little, like, personal seminar or book club on these artists. So that's not really conducive to a one-hour "from memory" ballot process. I also feel like really short voting windows just scare off people who aren't die-hard fans or die-hard ballot-makers, and obviously all polls are better with more people participating.

Well—and I'm really not advocating we go one way or the other, just pointing out facts—we built up this huge list of upcoming polls when things were zipping along at a pretty good rate and then, for one reason or another, they slowed WAY down and now we have a list that we'll likely never get through. If we'd started out with the idea that these polls would be contemplative, immersive events in the context of ILM, then I bet the list wouldn't have gotten so large so quickly. The list we have now is based on fast-moving polls, though.

Oh, I wasn't thinking about actually listening to the music. I usually spend a few days with the tunes on ipod and then whip a ballot together rather quickly.

(FWIW, if anything could clog up the queue really it'd be artists who just don't have large enough catalogs or ILM followings for a ballot poll to be particularly revealing. Like, a Chuck Berry poll would be a good excuse to listen to Chuck, but I doubt it'd produce a richer discussion than the Great Twenty-Eight poll thread, since it'd basically be about ranking those songs plus a few more. But who am I to say? My Billy Joel poll is probably folly, and some of the ones that make me scratch my head will probably be bliss for a bunch of people.)

I'm patiently awaiting that Billy Joel poll tbh.

Huh, I never really thought of the list as particularly zippy - it's kinda always felt like "put your quarter down and then be surprised when that bird finally comes home to roost." Not that that's an argument for it staying that way! Maybe some of our poll-tabulating energies could go into compiling some kind of bar graphs figuring out when the perceived slowdown happened, and whether it was suddenly or gradually. I agree it's not really fun waiting for years for these things and it would be nice to know when your turn will (likely) be. Just wouldn't want it to turn into a world where the voting periods and rollouts are always so short that it destroys on both ends the fun of participating in the polls.

xpost You may be waiting for the... most extreme duration.

I go to extremes.

for one reason or another, they slowed WAY down

I seem to remember the James Brown poll having something to do with this. Massive discography + low turnout (fewer than 20, iirc) meant the deadline got extended, then I think ILX went down for a week or two.

does anyone want a max martin poll at some point in the (perhaps distant if the queue is truly as slow as has been suggested) future?

Just want to ditto what doc casino said-part of what I enjoy in voting is spending some extended time with a catalog, like on the XTC one.
The other thing that comes to mind in how long the polls take is that I also did Motown Singles (50) and Classic Rock (100) and 100 is a lot of songs.
But if we aren't digging deep, why bother?

That Aphex Twin poll just got way more challenging with all the tracks RDJ is dropping the last two weeks

I think the queue system for artist polls is fine, if that's what you want, but I don't feel it should cease every other poll on the board. Like, the point of ILM is to have some fun and interesting discussions on music, not to meticulously plan everything for the next 5 years. I think it's okay to announce it in this thread if you're planning a bigger general/non-artist poll, just to we don't get several of those running at the same time, and I think so far it's worked fine. But the idea that voting in each and every poll takes so much time and effort that you can't possibly do anything else while that poll is running sounds absurd to me! Okay, maybe it is like that for some people, but I can't imagine it applies to the majority of people here. So aren't the rest of us allowed to have fun because some people take these things super seriously?

Also, does anyone really vote in all of these polls? I'm looking at the list now, and it seems all the upcoming polls from #65 to #91 are Old Geezer Rock Music, with Burth Bacharach (and maybe Spoon?) being the only exception. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who doesn't much care about sone Old Canonical Rock Bands, so do we have to wait for the next 2 years before there is a fun poll around again?

So yeah, I get the point why people want to organize these polls, and it's a good thing they're discussed here, but having a single queue for everything is taking it too far, IMO.

Can, Dead C, Royal Trux, Bauhaus, John Fahey, Fairport Convention - what a boring bunch of old canonical rock bands!

For most of these polls I feel a good schedule is two weeks of listening/voting and one week of rollout. Nobody is forced to spend two weeks doing their homework, but most of my favourite poll experiences have been cases where I only knew a fraction of the discography beforehand and used the poll as an opportunity to dig deep (e.g. Motown, John Cale, Neil Young).

I doubt there's anyone here who votes in every single poll, and running overlapping polls is definitely a good idea, though organising one of these is hard work and every poll runner deserves to have the board's attention when they roll out so there shouldn't be two results threads at any one time imo.

I think it's okay to announce it in this thread if you're planning a bigger general/non-artist poll, just to we don't get several of those running at the same time, and I think so far it's worked fine.

I'm tentatively open to this way of thinking - - - so there's a less-formal but still-in-place way of making sure there aren't multiple long-ballot mega-polls competing (or covering the same ground)? That was part of the big issue a year ago (notwithstanding whatever else was in play) - "all time albums" was unveiled without preamble just as the similarly vast (and long-scheduled) Classic Rock was due to unfold. The system has survived other "big" polls gliding by, it's true.

fwiw there has been intermittent discussion of a half-decade thread happening in 2015 for a couple of years now

2) A track that's shorter than 10/15/20 minutes can be valid if it's at least twice as long as the second-longest track on the same album.

I doubt Leee or anyone is gonna start calculating average track lengths within a whole genre, so non-album singles would still be problematic... But I don't see how this poll could be run in a non-problematic way, since the definition of "epic" length varies so much between genres.

I'm disinclined to include songs based on their relative lengths, since a 4-minute punk song could qualify. What's more, I'm using "epic" merely to denote "really long song," not "WHOA THAT WAS EPIC, MAN," so no "November Rain."

I think the original 10-minute-rule is a pretty good one. It's not like the whole top 50 is going to be ambient tracks.

it would be best to break each epic up into its respective parts, so in the final result we would see, e.g. how the Sweet-like fast part of "Bohemian Rhapsody" fares vs. the repeating instrumental part of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)," etc.

subpoll?

Two Points

• Perhaps Genre/Label polls should be moved to a separate list, as they work on different timetables than individual artist ones.

• There really needs to be more of an overlap in the single artists polls. Seems to me a voting thread shouldn't have to wait to get rolling until after the previous poll is done rolling out. A attentive pollrunner should monitor what's going on before their turn. The sign that the poll before you is doing results should prompt you to get what you need together for voting, and once that's done get the thread going. Rollout Thread A and Voting Thread B can coexist.

^^^ I had assumed this was still/always the case!

rmde at any epic poll with rules that might exclude "Freebird"

Then strike "epic" and substitute with "15-minute long."

http://media1.giphy.com/media/STs07TDdxyKru/giphy.gif

sore gif of epic ack

I think the original 10-minute-rule is a pretty good one. It's not like the whole top 50 is going to be ambient tracks.

― ⊤ℝolliℵg M∃th H∑a∂ (seandalai), Wednesday, February 4, 2015 4:03 PM (18 minutes ago)

Kashmir - 8:32

favorite bible verse

http://download.lardlad.com/framegrabs/9F14/031.jpg

nah it's all about Pathway To Glory 8:37

just as the similarly vast (and long-scheduled) Classic Rock was due to unfold

and when did that classic rock poll take place again? july or something?

just run the poll when you like jf

Yeah. Doesn't seem that long ago, but I guess it is. xp

just as the similarly vast (and long-scheduled) Classic Rock was due to unfold

and when did that classic rock poll take place again? july or something?

― Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Wednesday, February 4, 2015 6:29 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this does not strike me as a fair line of argument. IIRC (and brief control-Fing of this thread seems to back me up), some dude initially put it on pause because of the unheralded album poll. after that kerfluffle got sorted, he then had to postpone due to work etc., but - - - and this strikes me as significant to the points up for discussion - he resolved this by consulting with other people coming up in the queue, dropping himself down in line, and basically working it out with people. then when it came it was the best poll ever and the summer that never ended, and also Sandy.

he didnt put it on pause; he wasnt ready to run it. but who cares really. its just ridiculous that people want jf to join a queue for something that isnt an artist poll.

classic rock poll was pure glorious ecstasy, best poll ever

can we not go through, again, this weird ritual of pretending there's some consensus or tradition about "artist" polls but NOT about any other kind of music listening poll? i mean there are plenty of sensible ways to disagree about how to move forward on this but insisting that without the magic word "artist" all other concerns are moot is just...weird. like it might be pertinent in certain concrete ways, sure, let's talk about them, but this "i didn't say simon says" thing is not convincing by itself. i, and i think most others here, are trying to figure out the best way to do this that's funnest for all, which is a tricky thing we probably won't 100% agree on because we get different things out of polls, and recognize different aspects of them as the thorny/tricky areas, etc. that's cool, that's the fun of talking through this like it's a constitutional convention. good discourse. "but it isn't an artist poll!" is...not.

Just fwiw, decade/half-decade/eoy/genre/etc polls routinely get north of 75 voters (and often 100) so pretending they're just the same as basic artist ballot polls is bit disingenuous. Whether or not you participate in them, many other people do.

i'm fucking pissed i got bumped, but i will work it out with Leee. i want to do mine before Opening Day. i let this thread know where i was and when i was going to be ready.

Would never say they're *the same* - just would rather the discussion revolve around the real differences (like your point abt participation) and how those might relate to different ILX customs, than just 'this thread is only for artist polls and this isn't an artist poll, end of story,' which has been made several times (not by you), and debunked (e.g. by DJP pointing out the non-artist polls that have been run through this thread, etc)

Jordan was otm

2 cents: Don't see why ballot polls shouldn't be run Friday-Friday with the weekend for tabulation and a Mon-Thurs rollout (forced leisurely pace would be excellent, as I too find the quick rollouts sorta sadmaking), and run like 1 per week. Seeing as we have a list of what's coming up for the next approx 100 years, it's not like you wouldn't be able to listen to the ones you want to participate in well in advance if you're the kind of person who needs to really dig deep or the artist has a large catalogue, and I imagine even the most active folks participate in maybe 1/2 the artist polls. Bigger polls w/noms threads could maybe run over the course of a month or so (2 weeks noms, 1 week balloting, mon-thurs rollout) & be coordinated w/the artist polls so no 2 polls share the same due date and rollout schedule... I realize that's probably really idealistic and a lot of scheduling work (poll coordinator gonna have to make a gantt chart) but in theory something a lot more accelerated than what we've got now should be doable, no?

I barged ahead and finally have this running:

Everybody I know can be POLLED here: The Spacemen 3, Spectrum, Spiritualized, and descendants poll thread (ILM Artist Poll Thread #57)

So I'm arbitrarily deciding on the following parameters:

15-minute minimum track length
2-week nomination period

Any strenuous objections?

I feel strongly that I want to vote for live version of Yoo Doo Right and it's 14:sthg

ditto "Achilles Last Stand" ditto ditto 10:23

LL otm.

And since the Who's "A Quick One, While He's Away" was, for all intents and purposes, the first Rock Epic, I'd propose 9:10 as the minimum.

Wouldn't something like "Desolation Row" or "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" predate that?

D'oh, you're right. Both predated the Who song.