Billy Corgan

Maybe it's not even rock royalty; it's the people who have been innovative and pushing the envelope in art and music. People talk about BC like he's a laughable, abysmal failure as an artist. While I'm not his biggest fan, you cannot say he is lazy about his art, nor that he isn't ambitious and has vision. You could argue that these qualities aren't sufficient for producing great art, but my impression is other people's pretentious horseshit (e.g. Radiohead) is lauded as visionary genius while BC's pretentious horseshit is written off as simple wankery.

maybe but Malkmus never sold as many records/never had as much mass appeal - I doubt Bilbo considers him "rock royalty"

xp

Radiohead is another good example

I guess the simplest way to put it actually comes through loud and clear in the interview: he's far more talented and important than many of the people in the 'cool club.' So why hasn't be been invited in?

I doubt Bilbo considers him "rock royalty"

Bilbo Corgans, the tallest hobbit motherfucker of them all.

"You have no hair on your feet!"

"Fucking DUH."

he's far more talented and important than many of the people in the 'cool club.' So why hasn't be been invited in?

because he isn't cool!

i think the burning question to him is "WHY???"

lol "i don't really like his music but i hate radiohead and people talk about how radiohead is so great so why don't they talk about Melon Collie & The Infinite Sadness the way they do OK Computer?"

to which i respond IF YOU HAVE TO ASK

we need a fincher biopic to really understand billy

honestly I think Mellon Collie IS better than OK Computer, and oddly, less pretentious.

He's a dick, he craps out too many records, he keeps firing or losing band members/momentum, he has no apparent sense of humor or humility ...

honestly I think Mellon Collie IS better than OK Computer, and oddly, less pretentious.

that is odd.

honestly, i think this has a lot more to do with image than what people are willing to cop to.

fuck are you talking about people happily admit they hate corgan's image

honestly I think Mellon Collie IS better than OK Computer, and oddly, less pretentious.

so otm

well tell billy because he's the last person on earth who gives a shit

i mean, come on, "Fitter Happier"? that is some pretentious shit right there.

right, people admit to hating BC's image, but let's ask people if they choose musical favorites based on image. I bet few people will come out and admit that.

JiC otm in general

i just can't take this "billy corgan isn't getting a fair shake because people are obsessed with superficial beauty and cool points" plaint seriously. i think corgan's done very well for a guy spewing shit calligraphy lyrics with a voice that sounds like jon lovitz with strep

If you guys were the authors of cherub rock you'd have invented cherub rock!

you know why Bilco isn't cool? because he complains about people acting like he isn't cool

he is cool because he makes good tunes and wears capes. these are the cool things now.

I'm not saying that BC is free of artistic crimes, but Thom Yorke's terrible cracking falsetto is not a great counterargument to BC's bad voice.

Here's an analogy that seems relevant. Bear with me, here. People HATE Wal-Mart for their bad labor practices, the way they put mom and pops out of business, their reputation for cheap crap, etc. But Target does the EXACT same shit, but many of the same people who hate Wal-Mart apparently have no problem with Target because, well, it's just... cooler. This ultimately leads me to believe that the reason many people hate Wal-Mart has nothing to do with the aforementioned shit (which is the thrust of many anti-WM arguments), but because Wal-Mart has an uncool reputation, being for low-class, uneducated, and unfashionable people, while Target has a reputation as being for educated, culturally-forward, fashionable people. Ultimately, these two stores are not all that far off from each other. They're both mass merchants who sell cheap crap. Everything else is mostly about image and clientele.

Likewise, the cultural collective says: Smashing Pumpkins is lame, low-class wankery for losers; Radiohead is sophisticated, innovative rock music for thinking people. But at their heart, I don't see them as being all that different.

Machina II is better than OKC.

Likewise, the cultural collective says: Smashing Pumpkins is lame, low-class wankery for losers; Radiohead is sophisticated, innovative rock music for thinking people.

i don't know who the cultural collective is, but they apparently don't write music reviews

he keeps firing or losing band members

I don't really blame him for this tbh

Actually, I blame him on both counts. blame lies with the dictator.

MCIS is so much less pretentious than OKC. Not concerned with being cool or cutting edge, wearing its overblown and exaggerated emotions like stars of valor, Billco is willing to let himself be totally vulnerable and naked for the sake of the audience as much as for himself. Mellon Collie is a totally about-face record, it's not pretentious at all. its length is NOT pretentious, it's fan service...

yeesh

josh you know d'arcy actually went insane right

pre·ten·sion1
prəˈten(t)SH(ə)n/
noun
1.
a claim or the assertion of a claim to something.
"their pretensions to culture"
synonyms: aspiration, claim, assertion, pretense, profession
"the author has no pretension to exhaustive coverage"
an aspiration or claim to a certain status or quality.
"another aging rocker with literary pretensions"

2.
the use of affectation to impress; ostentatiousness.
"he spoke simply, without pretension"
synonyms: pretentiousness, affectation, ostentation, artificiality, airs, posing, posturing, show, flashiness; More

"wearing its overblown and exaggerated emotions like stars of valor" sounds like pretension to me

the world is a vampire

so...there's that

spazz's post maybe had some mixed metaphors but I think you can get from the whole post that it is not pretensious in spazz's opinion

who gives a shit, it's pretentious

it's pretentious to give a shit?

it's ostentatious and affected, doing it "for the kids" does NOT make it less pretentious

if anything claiming your over-the-top display of feeling came from a sense of obligation to others only makes it more so

ftr I was just deliberately misreading your post for jokes there. I do think that album is pretentious.

xposting D'Arcy didn't go insane, she was on drugs, and regardless, that was eons ago and he has gone through how many lineups since then, even if you don't include Zwan? Dunno, but enough to propose sole constant Corgan is the problem.

And lol that anything Corgan has done has been anything less than pretentious.

constantly demanding that everything you do be taken seriously/treated as important is kinda textbook pretentious, no?

or does he differentiate between the real, the pure, the heart music and eh this is just some stuff he did for a goof

monuments is a goof. mellon collie is the core, the heart music

mellon collie is over. it doesn't matter. monuments is a 4 star album!

I need to say that I once saw Corgan give a poetry reading while reclining on a pillow with a light-up army helmet on.

Because really http://files.umwblogs.org/blogs.dir/1886/files/2009/04/a0009263_22271348.jpg

http://assets.noisey.com/content-images/contentimage/26278/Corgan2.jpg

https://twitter.com/ZuZusTeahouse/status/561319453544448001

that patch bay is absurd!