The Associates: Have the years been kind?

thanks so much Mr. Ned
you just made my day

Glad to help!

Ned, with that posted link, I can finally forgive you for that YouTube vid about the cape. You are indeed a gentleman.

There's a new play on at Dundee Rep Theatre, "Balgay Hill", in June that is kind of Billy Mackenzie related. It's not purely autobiographical. I'm not going to explain it well, but here's the link: http://www.dundeereptheatre.co.uk/p2s22.html

Will be going along to see it, the Rep is usually good.

One tries, KBP.

And I kept forgetting to mention Balgay Hill! The Associates list has been talking about it for a bit -- and someone on there just posted a link to this thread so hello all who are seeing it for the first time! (I have to apologize as upthread I say Blair Brown is male, which is obv not the case!)

After the first half of this thread talked exclusively about Sulk, I'm glad The Affectionate Punch got some love after it was reissued in 2005. It's my favorite of theirs. AMG said "Two years later -- a year after the genius run of bizarre singles collected on Fourth Drawer Down and the same year as the high-drama overdrive of Sulk -- Rankine and Mackenzie partially re-recorded and completely remixed this album to spectacularly layered and glossy effect." Too bad the reissue didn't include that version, it might have won over some of the Sulk fans.

That version was already on CD for years, so it was quite exciting to get the original version back in print. I think it's like the Slapp Happy thing (Casablanca Moon/Acnalbasac Noom) some people prefer one, some the other, some like to pick from each!

Having fun on Dutch TV in 1982

Another Dundee-centric event coming up: a screening of the documentary "The Glamour Chase", introduced by Alan Rankine. The page says it's still TBC, but if it's on it's on June 2nd. Probably not much use for many of you, I know.

http://www.dca.org.uk/whats-on/films/the-glamour-chase-special-screening-and-talk.html

tell me easter's on friday, and i'll bend my hips

― cutty, Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:25 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^

And to repeat myself in turn given the weekend:

"Tell me Easter's a draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggg!"

http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858589265/

says "splint my hips" hmmm

Ned, did you ever come around on Wild & Lonely? I enjoy the older CD I have. But esp. now that it's been remastered and reissued--and given how dramatically different Sulk sounded after its reissue (compare the old Popera master of "Party Fears Two" for a taste)--my guess is that this could be a pretty remarkable difference.

I haven't listened as much to the remaster as I could/should have but I do have it around, and while I still think it's a prisoner of its particular time and place there's a better album in there struggling to get out than I first thought. A couple of TV clips from the time helped to bring that home to me more.

Yeah -- listening to Wild and Lonely now, I feel like this record has aged very, very well. To begin with, the comparison to which this era of Billy is most regularly drawn--post-Avalon Bryan Ferry--is superficial at best and wrong at worst. Yes, it's "glossy" and "high tech" and both have marvelous voices -- but the similarities end there.

For one, there's much more weirdness going on here -- from the production touches (the varispeeded high keyboard melody of "Something's Got to Give") to the lyrics ("It all begins/With Santa Claus/And brilliant men/With brilliant flaws" is but one of the amazing couplets to be found throughout this).

And honestly, I think the production has dated quite well, really. There's this assumption that's been extrapolated from Ferry to every artist that became "slick" in the 1980's that this Xanadu-ification of studio technology naturally covered for a lack of ideas or inspiration.

That may be true for Ferry, Bowie and whoever else, but it just doesn't apply for Billy's post-Rankine work. Don't get me wrong: Sulk is desert island pick-worthy for me -- I love it as much as any record I own, probably. But in some ways, I think what Billy did from Perhaps-onward is riskier and bolder because he was pushing those limits wearing an MOR straitjacket. And while it's not "consistent," well...that was never Billy's strength anyway.

The full 40 minute edit of the documentary "The Glamour Chase" was given only it's second public airing at the DCA in Dundee tonight. It was originally made in 1999 for Grampian and STV. It's good, fairly zips through the life and times, I never saw the original 23 minute version when it was broadcast, but it must have battered through at a fair pace! Most of the detail is familiar from Tom Doyle's book of the same name, unsurprising as he was involved in the making of the documentary and the fact that the book itself was fairly exhaustive. There's talking-head contributions from the likes of Michael Dempsey, Max Hole, Chris Parry (a "Kiwi c-nt", according to Rankine...), Billy's father and sister, Boris Blank, Martin Fry, Glen Gregory, Marc Almond, Siouxie Sioux, Noko from Apollo440 and others. There's a few clips of the Ronnie Scotts performance in 1984 in a kind of jazz trio arrangement, not sure how widely available that has been but it looked great - the sound quality was good and clear, it would be great to have the audio of that.

Afterwards we got "Billy Sloan in Conversation With Alan Rankine", which was quite enjoyable. Sloan was knowledgeable and understated and not at all playing up to his reputation. Sloan basically asked him about his time in the band from beginning to end, his memories of Billy, that sort of thing. A few questions from the audience at one point but I couldn't think of anything to ask. On the subject of "William It Was Really Nothing", Rankine said that he doesn't know if anything ever happened between Billy and Morrissey, but if he knew Billy as well as he thought he did then he probably shagged Morrissey ragged... By the sound of it, they had fun at the time. He also mentioned that they got their rights back for recordings a month ago, I assume he meant "Fourth Drawer Down" and "Sulk" and the "Double Hipness" material which was previously licenced to V2, and that they'll probably be doing something with it. On the subject of watching Billy carry on as Associates after his departure, he did say that other than some of the songs on "Perhaps", he didn't really rate the post-"Sulk" output, and that it was clear by the "Wild and Lonely"-era videos that Billy's heart wasn't in it.

The Q+A was finished off with the playback of a recently made recording of the lost Associates song "The Twins of Gemini". Rankine said that they'd worked on it at the time, but never recorded it, finished the lyrics or properly performed it other than maybe accapella at parties. Apparently this version was only finished the night before, and features Steven Lindsay on vocals, Craig Armstrong on piano and Rankine on bass. Someone asked him later if it was getting a release, he said they'd maybe be doing some more work on it but that it was a possibility.

Got the chance to shake Rankine's hand on my way out, didn't really have much to say. He had a few signed, unplayed 12"s of "White Car in Germany" that he was handing out, got one of those.

There's a few clips of the Ronnie Scotts performance in 1984 in a kind of jazz trio arrangement, not sure how widely available that has been but it looked great - the sound quality was good and clear, it would be great to have the audio of that.

Both video and audio of the full show have circulated pretty widely at this point -- that blog link I put should have it.

Great report, glad you had a good time!

Ned, I suspected that the Ronnie Scotts stuff was out there, will have a look for that link.

The "Balgay Hill" play starts its run next week at Dundee Rep, work permitting I'll try and check that out. Don't expect much insightful critique of it though!

Odd news but hey -- two late period rarities featuring Billy have surfaced on YouTube courtesy of some bunch called Binary Music.

"Put This Right":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmjsDCaP6IM

"Deamanda":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxlWaM196ZQ

The first one apparently appeared on a cassette a while back but this is a far cleaner version -- it might be a track he did with Balcony -- while the second is more of a mystery. An Associates listmember who provided the earlier info also got a hold of Steve Aungle, his last regular collaborator, and he said he remembers the lyric -- apparently it's a tribute to Ms. Galas! -- but not working on the song. He also figures that the date is wrong since Billy died in January 1997, so maybe this was 1996.

Billy's last regular collaborator Steve Aungle has started a blog which will be dedicated to a series of posts about his life and times with the good man.

http://steveaungle.wordpress.com/billy-mackenzie/

This looks pretty promising thanks for the heads up. I just never get bored of finding out more about Billy. There seems to be an endless list of people who have great stories about him.

I think it's probably time to read The Glamour Chase again.

Really enjoying the blog. As much as I love the guy, he must have been a total nightmare to work with.

who couldn't love "party fears two"?

also "dogs in the wild".

I once read that the last 3 tracks on the second Radio One Sessions are, in fact, identical to the studio versions and not from the Phil Kennedy show as indicated. Can anyone confirm or deny? And if it's true, are the proper session versions floating around in the interwebs?

I'm looking for a few alternate version of tracks (as listed in a nice discography I've found). Can anyone help me out?

Straw Towels 5.24 (full length)
39, Lyon Street: Kites 4.46 (full length 12" version)
A Girl Named Property 5.25 (full length 12" version)
Q Quarters (original demo version) 5.04

Hmm, you should be able to find a clutch of them here:

http://whippetatthewheel.blogspot.com/

Thus, for instance:

On a more mundane note… and just before we all get over-excited… the version of “A Girl Named Property” on the original vinyl of “Fourth Drawer Down” (which claims to be 5.25 on the Sit 2 record label) is exactly the same length as the version which appears on the V2 re-issue (which comes in at 4.56). It is a 1981 labelling error so we can all calm down.

That site is a godsend for obsessives - thanks!! Finally, the TRUE version of "Club Country"!

It is pretty great -- I'd had a slew of these songs already (IIRC Sid's on the Associates list or just the general source of a lot of things over the years) but by ripping so many them at a lot higher quality than before = A+ approach.

And don't know if you noticed but the 39 Lyon Street "Kites" 12" version went up -- unless you were the one who prompted him to do that in the first place!

Enjoying a slew of live recordings today -- hearing "No" from a 1980 Marquee show makes for quite a different beast than it turned out to be, even with the lyrics pretty much unchanged.

i want to read more of this thread but listening to the group for the first time -- the album "fourth drawer down"

o_O

woah these guys are something...

i think i love it?

maybe?

A very good start there. And there's much more to discover.

this is intriguing, they don't really fit nicely into any sort of post-punk/new wave "box"...like too uh fancy to be in with the real post-punkers (elements remind me of ABC or stuff like that) but way too weird and arty to be New Pop or whatever

aside from i guess a vague roxy music vibe but even that's not quite right

You don't have the full story. The first LP, The Affectionate Punch, is more conventionally post-punk. It's a great album and it's arty and weird and baroque, but it sounds like a BAND and makes sense. The following album Sulk is more clearly new wave/new pop, though darker and gloomier. Fourth Drawer Down compiles a bunch of singles that came out inbetween. They're more experimental than either album, and I think more electronic. Not too far off from Sulk though.

But by the time of Sulk and them having "hits" with those singles, they were definitely grouped with new pop. Funny though if you compare the UK and US versions of Sulk, as the US version has the 18 Carrot Love Affair Single on instead of some of the darker stuff.

Oh, funny, I was just thinking of reviving this wonderful thread. Welcome to the land of The Associates! Some of us have been here from the start, others wandered in blindly over the years but know this - no one leaves. And my appreciation of the sheer uniqueness (and overused word when it comes to music but it really applies here) just deepens as time goes on. I was just listening to "Double Hipness" yesterday and shaking my head, both at what's there and what could have been had the reunion continued full-on.

yeah def very interested now, esp to check out stuff dan just posted about, i guess i'm kinda coming in at the end of the band it sounds like

Not at all -- very early on! The bandname essentially petered out much later in Mackenzie's career when he finally decided to let it go in favor of trading under his own name; the key partnership with Rankine did dissolve only after a few years together, though, so in terms of that you can say Fourth Drawer was essentially square in the middle.

No, you're near the middle of the beginning! After Sulk Alan Rankine left and Billy kept on for years with different producers and not as good results. Some people love that stuff, I certainly think there are some gems in there, but I definitely prefer the Rankine era.

ie what ned said

There is so much space for discovery in their songs and albums. They are all like majestic alien halls you can wander down forever. I have been on an Associates kick for months and it'll keep going because their songs are so expansive. I still haven't listened to any of the post-Rakine stuff.

Abbott, that is one of the best descriptions of them I've ever read. :-)

why have I not posted itt? jeeez

Thought I ought to mention that Tom Doyle's excellent Billy MacKenzie biog The Glamour Chase is due for reissue at the beginning of next month: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Glamour-Chase-Tom-Doyle/dp/1846972094/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313487770&sr=8-1

Very cool indeed (and Bjork over Bono as the forward writer any day so hurrah for that; is that the only revision, though?).

I think there are some other revisions to the text but not major ones.

The bit at the end about the songs only now found in dusty second hand shops can now be thankfully updated, at least.

I still vividly remember the fist time I heard "White Car in Germany" in college. I'd checked out the LP from my college radio station's library, and I was listening on headphones in my dingy dorm room since my roommate was sleeping. It was definitely due to them being talked about on ILM, too. Those first few totally alien synth sludgenotes, that cough syrup tempo ("is this the wrong speed?"), the way it kind of zombily jerks into that stately melody, and then Mackenzie's unreal voice rising up out of it. It was a complete and total shock to the system, and unlike anything I'd ever encountered. Still gives me chills to think of that initial experience...

That's great that The Glamour Chase is being reissued, it's such a great read that totally made me fall in love with their music and Billy as a person.

Please forgive this long-winded post but Billy is my favourite singer ever and one of the few artists I get really carried away about.

I would say The Affectionate Punch, Sulk and Fourth Drawer Down are the absolute essentials. After that things get a little more tricky as there are plenty of amazing songs spread out over some really average albums.

Perhaps is mostly great, it's very polished and a lot more straight forward than the first three albums. Helicopter Helicopter and Schampout are the first songs he did that are just really bad. The second side is a lot stronger as it has Breakfast which is an incredible ballad with one of his best vocals. The Stranger In Your Voice has one of the best and most ridiculous string arrangements in a song I can think of. The Best of You might be my favourite track, would love to hear the version they did with Annie Lennox.

The Glamour Chase is mainly bland late 80's pop but it does contain Empires of the Heart which sounds like it should have been a Bond theme. The reissue with Perhaps on the other disc is worth having for some of the extra tracks, mainly Take Me To The Girl and The Rythm Divine which he did with Yello.

Wild & Lonely is his worst album, terrible production ruins some fairly good songs especially on Just Can't Say Goodbye, Fire to Ice and the title track. Some of the songs are just so half-baked, good production couldn't help them.

Outernational from 92 is a lot better but hardly essential. It was released as his first solo album but is really just the same as the previous three albums, Billy working with various session musicians. He was really obsessed with the dance music at the time so he tried to make an album in that style but of course the best song is the ballad, Baby. His vocal on that song is really stunning, it should have been a huge hit.

Beyond The Sun is an album of songs he had been working on in the last years of his life. This is easily his best album after the first three Associates albums. He was mainly into dance music again at this point but this is mainly full of beautiful ballads especially Nocturne VII which is a heartbreaking song. Give Me Time is yet another song that would have made a great Bond theme. Three Gypsies In a Restaurant is the only dud on the album, sadly that was the stuff Billy was into making at that time but he was never one to go for the safe choices with his material.

Eurocentric is another posthumous release. It's a good collection, a mix of dance songs and some more really moving ballads. The ballads are much more enjoyable. His version of Wild is the Wind is the highlight, but Liberty Lounge is a great 70's glam influenced gem.

The Radio One Sessions albums are both excellent. Party Fears 2 is my favourite song ever but the track A Severe Bout Of Career Insecurity is probably the song that sums up everything that was amazing about Billy as a performer. It sounds like he made the lyrics up as he went along and the way he says, "And It Goes To Show All You Want Is Above The Knee" is just Godlike. A lot of the other versions on here are really great to hear, the slow version of Take Me To The Girl in particular is very charming.

The Double Hipness coompilation is such an interesting mix of their material. The early demos are so odd and full of sax and bizarre lyrics. I still think The Cardiacs must have been taking notes from those songs. The slightly later demos are really good, showing how quickly they started writing great material. A lot of these ended up fleshed out on The Affectionate Punch but my personal favourite is Geese which is one of the simples and most catchy tunes they ever wrote. The second disc is also very mixed, there's some good stuff on there that he did with Alan Rankine but it sounds quite dated.

A few other tracks that are worth mentioning would be Pain In Any Language that he made with Apollo 440 in 1996, which is an epic electronic ballad. Ice Cream Factory released in 1982 as Ice Cream Factory Mackenzie Sings Orbidoig is another one-off single he did which is a really thrilling single. This is available on the Singles compilation put out a few years ago.

So as I said at the beginning of this rambling post: The essentials are The Affectionate Punch, Fourth Drawer Down, Sulk, both the BBC Radio One Sessions, Beyond The Sun, most of Perhaps and probably Double Hipness too. I would totally agree with the previous posts that there is so much to discover, buying their albums and singles was one of the most exciting periods of my life.

I have to disagree with Kitchen Person. I feel VERY strongly that , first: all of the songs on the ablum are top notch material. It's totally solid from a songwriting sense. While i feel the album was most definitely mis-produced overall I think Fire to Ice is on the best pop singles I"ve ever heard by any producer. Just a few listens on headphones and it becomes a relentless infection. Also the dissing of "Wild and Lonely" is unjust as well because it was the song i most immediately connected to on an emotional level. If one listens past the cheesy sequencing that seems to sit out front on most of the tracks, one hears Billy's exotic taste in soundscapes and also Billy's singing is sultry and very story-focused on this album . I would say it was the greatest album what I would say a little patience has rewarded me a lot on that album.

Lovely T-shirt for Billy MacKenzie devotees everywhere: http://www.redbubble.com/people/andrewnimmo/works/4189594-billy-mackenzie

They use American Apparel gear so nice cuts and feel. Mine got here (across the pond... in fact across a couple of ponds) in a matter of days.

Apparently based on a picture the photographer took of Billy in Dundee in 1985.