Rolling 2014 Thread on Race

When will Sullivan not be a thing anymore

I'm running out of "oy veys"

More on Sullivan's willful ignorance:

http://drx.typepad.com/psychotherapyblog/2011/11/andrew-sullivan-iq-research.html

He said IQ research was being "strangled" because of objections that it is racist.

I had a good course in anthropology in college, and the prof said it isn't even clear what IQ measures, other than that you were taught how to take a test. He also talked about "race" as a scientific concept and how anthropologists reject this. That class stuck with me, and I've been fascinated with these topics ever since. I mean the AEI supported Murray, and look how well-funded they are. That's what bothers me!

yeah Sullivan is basically a pseudoscientist afaic

There is a lot of good literature on the problems with IQ testing and the extent to which it measures kinds of thinking people are trained to do (as opposed to "pure innate ability"). For example I vaguely remember research done where they gave IQ tests to people in small, somewhat isolated farming villages in eastern europe or something along those lines, and there were certain aspects of the test that they just didn't comprehend because they had not been trained to do particular kinds of abstract thinking that we take for granted. An example I remember was something having to do with grouping objects by (abstract) category (shape, classification, etc.), whereas subjects would tend to group things by more real-world categories, like "I would take all these things with me on a journey."

A better response than Sullivan's:

http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/12/22/whats-jeet-heer-afraid-of/

still think 'debating' the bell curve legitimates it in ways that are more insidious than Sully's defense of his 20-year-old tenure as TNR's editor.

still not particularly good though
he's painting the rejection due to being some kind of liberal fear of dangerous ideas but really do we really need to give the flat-earthers a podium?

xp yeah, "debating" it is nonsense

it isn't even clear what IQ measures, other than that you were taught how to take a test.

lol this has been my argument since, like, junior high school

I think like a lot of things it's possible we don't all have the same "ceiling" in how well we could possibly do on an IQ test, and some people may be able to learn the measured skills more easily/quickly than others, but it's also clear that it measures skills that can be learned and developed (whether from directly preparing a test or indirectly from other kinds of activities). Like, the first time I ever saw an IQ test, I had no idea what to do with those shapes you're supposed to mentally rotate, for example.

Coates: http://gawker.com/ta-nehisi-coates-responds-its-a-privilege-for-me-to-b-1674748746

still not particularly good though
he's painting the rejection due to being some kind of liberal fear of dangerous ideas but really do we really need to give the flat-earthers a podium?

At the time, publications further to the left dealt with it better: they discussed the funding and history of this shit.

I think TNR has always been rub, but when they did that, it hurt, what's more I think they know it did. This was during the "Culture Wars" when a lot of centrist types published stuff that essentially portrayed "minorities" - especially black people - as a pain in the ass and not worth paying attention to. TNR knowingly abused privilege in doing what they did, and the reasons were bad.

Jeet Heer has a good response in the comments of that DeBoer post:

http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/12/22/whats-jeet-heer-afraid-of/#comment-79771

The thing is, mainstream publications were caught off-guard at the time : they were ill-prepared and ignorant. They didn't seem to know what The Pioneer Fund was, for example. It was irresponsible.

The Bell Curve received positive reviews in major newspapers and was taken seriously by Time and Newsweek.

Some of my favorite pieces were in Skeptic magazine, where they know the background and don't look like idiots when discussing science.

TNC is such a cool dude

this was my favorite part of deboer's piece, lol

The argument isn’t that this racial achievement gap isn’t real; if it wasn’t, then essentially the entire fields of educational testing, assessment, cognitive and developmental psychology, sociology, and psychometrics would be a massive racist conspiracy.

well...

(initially highlighted by tom scocca)

(freddie's post was good btw)

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/25/business/for-recent-black-college-graduates-a-tougher-road-to-employment.html?_r=0

recent statistics show that, even among recent college graduates, there is an enormous gap in employment between blacks and whites. black recent graduates have unemployment rates twice the national overall average

About that far-right conference that Steve Scalise (R - Louisiana) spoke at:

http://cenlamar.com/2014/12/28/house-majority-whip-steve-scalise-was-reportedly-an-honored-guest-at-2002-international-white-supremacist-convention/

Okay...HOW is this? "EURO" is "the European-American Unity and Rights Organization." Sorry, that does not sound "innocuous"!

This is a couple years old (came out during the whole KONY thing) but I think relates to what is being discussed in more concrete ways: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/the-white-savior-industrial-complex/254843/

like, thinking about the ramifications of what exactly it means beyond abstractions abt systemic vs personal

― deej loaf (D-40), Sunday, October 5, 2014 3:09 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

belated thanks for linking to this, deej. I think this was the first time I heard of Teju Cole. I read both of his books over xmas break, and they're well worth checking out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/nyregion/in-new-york-city-a-toll-is-newly-felt-as-asians-rise-in-the-police-ranks.html

This is contentious on a number of levels but an interesting perspective:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/a-cop-in-ukraine-said-he-was-detaining-me-because-i-was-black-i-appreciated-it/

belated thanks for linking to this, deej. I think this was the first time I heard of Teju Cole. I read both of his books over xmas break, and they're well worth checking out.

― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Friday, January 2, 2015 8:01 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ive only read open city, amazing book, very intense twist

is there a 2015 thread yet?

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/1.640997

Crazy

http://www.messynessychic.com/2015/04/09/the-kkk-application-form/
Is the motive prompting your inquiry serious?

Do you honestly believe in the practice of REAL fraternity?

no 2015 thread explicitly for this yet, eh?
anyways:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/06/misty-copeland-athlete/397364/

i would welcome some thoughts on if this is trolling, poor consideration or a reasonable point

not sure. is the point of the article that her career breakthrough goes hand in hand with her total commercialization?

just that the first black prima ballerina at ABT is presented as an "athlete" not an artist; seems like charged language

There's a 2015 Rolling Thread on Race

Rolling 2015 Thread on Race

thanks, missed it; will move.

i've seen an elmo scream at people, think it was this guy
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/anti-semitic-elmo-year-jail-girls-scout-extort-article-1.1480585

― PSY talks The Nut Job (forksclovetofu), Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:34 PM (two years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

anti-semitic-elmo-year-jail-girls-scout-extort

this could be an excerpt from a Skinny Puppy song

― Fight the Powers that Be with this Powerful Les Paul! (DJP), Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:36 PM (two years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so this guy has been living in a van parked a few blocks from our place, in a residential area, terrorizing the locals and leading to an amazingly long NextDoor thread (when he's not hanging out by the L.A. Zoo in his elmo outfit)