pollywog we've all explained this about ten times you. It's really not that difficult.
UK Garage refers to all these styles.
2-step didn't actually "precede" So Solid Crew in the sense you're interpreting it, since So Solid Crew actually made 2-step, and hence exist within the scope of this subset.
However, there were obciously 2-step tracks around before So Solid Crew with a stronger link to US garage, and since UK garage refers to all these styles (but has its roots in US garage) it's ridiculous to say that So Solid Crew are "garage" whereas the 2-step tracks that came out before So Solid Crew are not.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 05:50 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tim F wins the internet !!!
...cos i cant follow the argument anymore, especially when you're all saying different things. Its like one big circle jerk...
...can you recommend me some speed garage or a mix i might be able to download as i went from d'n'b to breaks to UKG without ever getting into speed garage
or we could talk about burial some more...
― pollywog, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 08:27 (5 years ago) Permalink
If you can find it, I strongly recommend you track down Dreem Teem's "In Session vol 2" mix from the end of 1997 - a mix of speed garage and early 2-step garage, and you can really hear the latter emerging out of the former.
Some crucial speed garage (a woefully short and incomplete list):
New Horizons - Find The Path (Sweet DJ Release)
Gant - Sound Bwoy Burial
Double 99 - Rip Groove
Scott Garcia ft. MC Styles - It's A London Thing
Boris Dlugosch Presents Boom - Hold Your Head Up High (Julian Jonah Bad Boy Mix)
New Horizons - It's My House (Bashment Mix)
187 Lockdown - Gunman
Fabulous Baker Boys - Oh Boy
― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 08:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
...i'll see what i can find
Thanx for the education cuz...
― pollywog, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 09:13 (5 years ago) Permalink
"Determined" (if anyone has an MP3 of this please hit me up)
happy to oblige (even if it's only 128kbit).
btw Tim, the part upthread about Wideboys reverting to funky house in the wilderness years is not quite true: yes, they did some funky house-ish stuff then, but at ukg tempo and aimed strictly at the ukg market. they also did a fair amount of 2step during the period when it was terminally unfashionable, and they started dabbling with bassline as early as 2005. this year's "Snowflake" is a good example of their wide array of ukg allegiances as it comes with a 2steppy mix, a London-style 4x4 mix and two bassline mixes - one for the organ house axis, one of the ruffer T2/DJ Q-type variety (the absolutely killer "Uf Norf Dutty Bass Mix").
but generally, you're spot on about their mercantile impulse - they even have an electrohouse alias nowadays (Atari Era)!
― Mind Taker, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 12:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
Mind Taker you are a champion. I lost this about five years ago and have been looking ever since! What a great and unusual track, so bizarre to think that it came out in 1998 or something like that. The closest other thing I can think of is David Howard's "U & I" - it's got that same "beats that sound like a shower of tiny ball-bearings" vibe. Love the vocal science too: "I'm Determined! Yes we're up! Hey! Hey! Hey! Yes we're up! Up!" Stuff like this and "Everybody Come On" and the "Jump & Shout" and "Demons" and "Please Don't Turn Me On" remixes paint such a different picture to their subsequent career.
Yeah I am skewing the Wideboys story a bit - although when I heard the 4/4 version of Sambuca it really did sound hard to distinguish from funky house! I haven't heard "Snowflake" in any of its versions, will definitely have to track that down.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 13:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Caught up in the spirit of generosity:
New Horizons - It's My House (the bashment mix).mp3
― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 13:23 (5 years ago) Permalink
Too kind, both of you.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 13:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
well, there are several 4x4 versions of "Sambuca": don't know which one you're referring to, but i prefer the one under their Del Monte guise.
― Mind Taker, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 13:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Dem 2 - Destiny (New Horizons Remix).mp3
― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 14:01 (5 years ago) Permalink
gawd i love this stuff
in the recent spirit of this thread, if anyone has the dubaholics' dub mix of "desire" by ultra naté i'd... ooh man i don't know what i'd do
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 14:56 (5 years ago) Permalink
Oh I don't have that one, but the Dubaholics Dub Mix of Matt Darey's "Beautiful" is one of my favourite 2-step tracks.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 November 2007 20:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
many thanks for the mp3s, this side of garage is one i have very little of so its greatly appreciated :) that bashment mix of Its My House is incredible!
going back to the mention of early 4x4 / speed garage upthread, a few mixes which i really enjoyed and which helped to introduce me to the genre...
United Vibes - FourFour Special - this one is a bit more in the vein of US roots i think, but i love it so much!
Ramsey & Fen & MJ Cole - "Underground Explosion"
Greg Stainer & MJ Cole - "Closer"
Todd Edwards - “Steal U’re Heart”
Sunship - “Sun Funk”
Jason H & MJ Cole - "Control"
24Hr Experience – “Jazz From the Heart”
Todd Edwards - "Winter Behaviour"
DJ $ki – “I Need You 98”
DJ Speedy – “The Harder They Come”
Tuff Jam - "Tumblin Down"
Matt Jam Lamont- "Feel My Love"
Dj $ki- “Do it : To – Nite”
Daniel Ward & Hermit – “Step to it”
Ant Hill Mob - "Player”
Groove Chronciles - “Nobody But You”
Smokin Beats - "Look Who's Lovin Me"
Jason Kaye & Steve Gurley - "Set It Out"
Rocksteady – “Watcha Gonna Do”
Todd Edwards - "The Dream"
R.I.P. – “Burning Up”
R.I.P - "Obsessed"
Jeremy Sylvester - "Stay"
KMA - "Cape Fear"
Tuff Jam - "Experience" (New Horizons Rmx)
? ? - ? ? (Duty Free)
Jeremy Sylvester - "Crazy Dub"
High Times - "Feel It"
Ordinary People – “Baby You Make My Heart Sing”
New Horizons - "Find The Path" (Tuff Jam mix)
Tuff Jam - “Out of my Head 97”
R.I.P – “Players”
Groove Chronicles – “Voices”
Louie Vega & Kenny Gonzalez – “No Cure”
Anthill Mob - "X2C"
NCA – Goodbye (Laurence Bagnall mix)
Ordinary People - “Keep your Love”
Big Bird – “Flav”
Anthill Mob - “Enchanted Rhythm”
? ? - ? ? (G.O.D. 4)
Dem 2 - "Beautiful People"
Groove Chronciles - "Hold On"
Smokin Beats - "Jazz House"
Ordinary People - "I Need"
Oris Jay on the Basement - this one is a bit ruffer
Scott Garcia- Music Takes You (Buzz Bomb)
Big Bird- Flav (City Dub Traxx/ Nice ‘n’ Ripe)
Livin Large ft Colonel Abrams- Love is what we need (unknown mix)
New Horizons- Find the Path (In your Mind) (Tuff Jam remix) (500 Rekords)
Underground Distortion- Everythin’ is Large (Boom City/Satellite)
4 Deep Connextion- Twisted Future (DFL)
New Horizons- Inspiration (500 rekords)
Colonel Abram- So Confused (The Bootleg) (Great Jones)
New Horizons- It’s My House (bassline mix) (500 Rekords)
Somore ft Damon Trueitt- I Refuse (What You Want)
(Industry Standard Mix) (Locked On)
Tuff Jam- Track No Name (Unda-Vybe)
Mike Dunn presents the MD Express- God Made Me Phunky
Nu-Birth- Anytime (Locked On)
― Benjamin, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 11:05 (5 years ago) Permalink
Woah, thanks Benjamin. I'm not sure how to get the first link to work, but I'm downloading that Oris Jay mix now.
In the meantime:
Nu-Birth - Anytime (Dem 2 Nice n Sleazy Mix).mp3
― Tim F, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink
cheers for the mixes benjamin but not having much luck with the first one either :(
― sam500, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 13:29 (5 years ago) Permalink
my days, that Dem 2 mix!
oh, it seems that the UV mix has gone down on the Sub FM archive. sorry for the tease! i'll see what can be done, i have it somewhere
in the meantime, one from this guy Average Joe on Uptown Forum, who has been knocking out incredible mixes like no-one's business http://www.sendspace.com/file/tpm3kt - this one focusing on 'the Sun City sound'
m-dubs - over here (original mix)
tuff jam ft tempo o neill - keep holdin on (up mix)
new horizons - find the path (in your mind)(tuff jams d.i.y dub)
new horizons - its my house (bassline mix)
smokin beats - dreams (original with vocal)
operator & baffled - things are never (tuff jam dub)
logic - blues for you (hard dub)
harddrive - deep inside (original)
g.o.d - what you want
kim mazelle - big baby (ramsey & fen mix)
pepper mashay - into you (grants dope dub)
banana republic ft judy obeya - catch the feeling (tuff n jams catch the dub)
24 hours experience - touch the afterworld
a baffled republic - badboys (move in silence)
booom! - hold your head up high (high up club mix)
booom! - hold your head up high (julians badboy mix)
soul II soul - pleasure dome (booker t dub)
new horizons - sweet dj release
g.o.d - untitled (limited 1)
kerri chandler - hallelujah
plutonic - addicted (dj disciple dub)
― Benjamin, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 17:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
Groove Connektion 2 - Club Lonely (Dem 2 Don't Cry Dub).mp3
― Tim F, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 21:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
this thread went from unbearable to awesome
― max, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 21:39 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 21:40 (5 years ago) Permalink
― W4LTER, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 21:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
Listening to that Oris Jay mix now. ha ha how good is 4 Deep Connextion's "Twisted Future", with that weird, incoherent diva wail. In an odd sense speed garage can be even more disorienting than 2-step because you get these seemingly standard house tracks filled with the most bizarre stuff.
Here's another New Horizons remix, slightly less gonzo than the previous ones I posted but I love what they do with the vocals here (in fact this seemed to be quite a trend for New Horizons remixes: recording entirely new vocals, usually of the opposing gender, and then cutting them up or tweaking them so that they sound remixed. It's like they've cut open the original vocals and let out some hidden counter-vocals hidden in their depths).
Danny J Lewis - Spend The Night (New Horizons Mix).mp3
― Tim F, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 22:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
...but if possible could you state as to whether those tunes are speed garage, 4x4 or 2step and the year of production so i can put it into some sort of historical reference
see i tend to genre hop form one to the other and leave the previous one behind as a new one pops up...
...having my interest piqued by UKG again i would like to know what if any artists are still making it, excepting the much talked about burial of course
― pollywog, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 23:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
All the New Horizons tracks remixes are speed garage from about 1997-1999 (speed garage used 4X4 beats so I'm not sure what that part of your distinction refers to).
The Dem 2 remixes are from the same time period, but are 2-step.
Here's another 2-step track from late 1997, and one of my favourite pieces of music ever:
Amira - My Desire (Dreem Team Remix).mp3
― Tim F, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 23:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
do you rate this mix, tim? it's one of my favorites for sure.
― tricky, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 23:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
I've never been able to find it! Based on the tracklisting it looks great, yeah.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 23:59 (5 years ago) Permalink
ok now i know what to put in the post! i can't believe it's only got two votes at discogs and that it rates a 3/5. that's WTF material right there.
― tricky, Thursday, 29 November 2007 00:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
how about this DJ EZ release?
dodgy cover and all! it's been hanging around in my local shop for a while now - and it's only a fiver.
― sam500, Thursday, 29 November 2007 00:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
"how about this DJ EZ release?
can't vouch for that one, but EZ was kinda the man for a while. it was a live mix of his that really got me started in 2-step, he dropped classic after classic. his intro on that mix was silly, it got rewound 3 times, and it deserved it. every single time a new element would come in, the crowd went ballistic.
― pipecock, Thursday, 29 November 2007 01:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
"but EZ was kinda the man for a while"
yeah, i remember hearing one of his guest mixes on Kiss FM years ago and it was right on the money. wish i'd taped it now.
― sam500, Thursday, 29 November 2007 01:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
That EZ mix is worth picking up if only for Artful Dodger's astonishing and hard to find remix of Valerie M's "Tingles", perhaps the most unabashedly beautiful 2-step ever got.
― Tim F, Thursday, 29 November 2007 02:08 (5 years ago) Permalink
no idea how this enters into whatever tf was being discussed but the shanks and bigfoot aiya napa mix tim's recommended before i come back to constantly
― deej, Thursday, 29 November 2007 02:11 (5 years ago) Permalink
Tim F - Cheers for the feedback. It's been sitting there for months so fingers crosssed it hasn't been sold yet.
― sam500, Thursday, 29 November 2007 02:16 (5 years ago) Permalink
Actually i think it is relevant deej. Critical orthodoxy would dismiss out of hand the possibility of Shanks & Bigfoot making one of the greatest 2-step mixes ever. Again, the temptation people succumb to is to over-stratify the scene so that you've got, say, Shanks & Bigfoot and Artful Dodger being irredeemably pop, Zed Bias being "underground", Dreem Teem repping for soulful conservatism. In reality it was so much more mixed up than that - e.g. Dreem Teem were the masters of brutal metallic basslines (see their remix of Neneh Cherry's "Buddy X", or Dionne Rakeem's "Sweeter Than Wine"), while Zed Bias totally had this very warm, old-fashioned soulful vibe stretching through his work (and ultimately culminating in the Maddslinky album, which is like a 2-step/broken beats crossover attempt).
Anyways, I love the way that mix touches on pretty much everything that was going on at the time, and it has some amazing tracks I've never seen/heard elsewhere (like, how improbably great is the S&B remix of Kavana's "Will You Wait For Me"?!?)
― Tim F, Thursday, 29 November 2007 03:19 (5 years ago) Permalink
YES YES YES
i'll try to return the favour and direct you to this page, where you can download Signal To One's lovely 4x4 rmx of Teedra Moses' "You'll Never Find".
and i'll throw in one of my NH favourites - a relatively straightforward production, but love the luscious nocturnal groove going on:
Tuff Jam - Experience (New Horizons Dub)
(now, if only someone had Dem 2's "Desire 99"...)
― Mind Taker, Thursday, 29 November 2007 10:53 (5 years ago) Permalink
-- Tim F, Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link
this is fantastic
― deej, Thursday, 29 November 2007 20:49 (5 years ago) Permalink
...and that teedra moses tune is fucking sweet too
― pollywog, Friday, 30 November 2007 01:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
Another one of my abolute faves, the rhythmic programming on this is insane, but it's also a great pop song:
David Howard - U & I.mp3
― Tim F, Tuesday, 4 December 2007 12:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Bumping so that you're all reminded to download this track. it really is one of the best things ever.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 13:41 (5 years ago) Permalink
It is true, this is a sick tune! Many thanks again for all the gifts. I have been bumping the New Horizons remixes of It's My House and Spend The Night so much, love them. First time I've heard New Horizons that has really connected with me to be honest, but I had heard very little previously. Any other recommendations?
And the Anytime mix is ridiculous. Such a sinister vibe... "im gonna give you love"... the way they make that horn riff take that mood! Then fade out to the sound of locked-groove orgasmic artifice :/ grim
I had a look for that United Vibes 4x4 mix at home and can't find it, only have it on my ipod now, apologies
― Benjamin, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 17:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
DID ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THE FIRST SAMPLE?
"i show you light. it burns forever"
^^ from DAVID LYNCH'S INLAND EMPIRE
― moonship journey to baja, Friday, 7 December 2007 03:09 (5 years ago) Permalink
yeah i noticed. i think jed commented about it upthread as well. it's a fitting opener to this strange album.
― tricky, Friday, 7 December 2007 03:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
Praise from Luc Sante in Salon today:
. . . "Untrue" by Burial. Shards of dance-hall music stretched and twisted until it sounds like a heap of ruins, but shot through with elegiac shafts of light. I hear jungle in this, of course, as well as, weirdly, a vein of English classical music, from Purcell to Vaughn Williams.
― three handclaps, Thursday, 13 December 2007 16:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
i like this album. but i don't know much about techno music. i think people like it because there's always something sort of melancholy about a certain kind dance songs. like "what is love" by haddaway always seemed sad to me. lots of those eurodisco songs that are on the late night comps seems sad. this is like that except more mysterious sounding.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:31 (5 years ago) Permalink
probably because it's made up of fucked up samples of such sad eurodisco
― sexyDancer, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:32 (5 years ago) Permalink
i believe you...that makes sense.... i don't even really know what eurodisco is, i've only seen in mentioned on ilm...i mean i think i know it when i hear it, like "music hall" even though i've never actually heard music hall music.
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
All Saints and Ray J =/ Eurodisco.
xpost. This ain't techno Matt!
― jim, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:34 (5 years ago) Permalink
Archangel is probably my favourite track of last year. The rest of the album relies on a similar formula too much, with much less success.
― chap, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:35 (5 years ago) Permalink
Etched Headplate and Raver are also pretty good, though.
― chap, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:37 (5 years ago) Permalink
i don't even know what techno is : (
i call everything that's vaguely sample based or electronic that's not hip hop "techno", i guess i'm probably like some guy in the 60s calling hippies beatniks or whatever
― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:38 (5 years ago) Permalink
It's a fairly common US thing to class all electronic music as 'techno', I've noticed.
― chap, Monday, 14 January 2008 21:40 (5 years ago) Permalink