Batman Begins: The Thread

GTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What was the point of Caine's speech right at the end of Holmes' hallucination sequence, "it can't be one man's revenge" etc. only to forget about all of that and everyone gets along happily everafter even though Batman shows no sign of changing?

If you'll remember, people only got freakout vibes from people whom they identified as menacing. Katie was protecting the kid, ergo he didn't freak out at her. Also, the kid was using Batman as a calming mantra; his unwavering hope and faith in his hero helped him counteract/deal with the worst effects of the hallucinogen.

Why did she suddenly start sobering up in the car (at least becoming semi-mobile), only to fall back to near-death when they arrived in the cave?

She initially fell completely out at the shock to her system. Her body started to acclimate to the drug, leading her to become more coherent and mobile, but her hallucinations were getting worse and worse thanks to the harrowing car chase, leading her brain to finally overpanic and shut down. (Also, have you never seen knocked on their ass by an initial rush, followed by wandering around semi-coherent in some altered state? Because that's basically what happened to her.)

-- s1ocki (slytus...), June 20th, 2005.

sorry to backtrack, BUT:

I even like the Adam West Batman. All those Adam West hataz fail to wreck-o-nyze, that if it hadn't been for that show/movie, there might not even BE Batman anymore, things were so dire in the 50s/60s. That's the thing with MYTHS, if they don't relate to the times, they're worthless. THAT's the real key to Batman, and why he's outpaced Superman since the 70s. Batman is transmutable, Superman is rigidly fixed.
Burton's original Batman movie was 1989. Steve Englehart's Batman remains 1974 (which is very unfortunate for Englehart's current miniseries Dark Detective, as it's set NOW).
Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns is Reagan-Era the same way that Watchmen is, FM's Year One is a little more nebulous, riffing on Taxi Driver and Dirty Harry and 70s urban decay memes.
In 15 years, Nolan's Batman will seem aswim in 00ism.

Burton's Batman okay but less absorbing than either since it can't quite decide whether it wants to be silly or serious and sorta makes a slapdash combination of the two which works sometimes and doesn't work others... the Schumaker movies are abominations. No ideas.

By kind of glossing the serious themes underlying the Batman myth but not fully embracing the silliness of it, I think Burton's films did both a disservice. Second one being better than first, etc.

xpost

Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man

...

I Am
Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man
I Am
Bat Man

I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman I am Batman, Batman

In hindsight it's clear the best Batman movie was Adam West's.

[quote](Also, have you never seen knocked on their ass by an initial rush, followed by wandering around semi-coherent in some altered state? Because that's basically what happened to her.)[/quote]
But it wasn't being knocked on her ass by the initial rush - she was 'about to die,' the superdose was overwhelming her brain (Scarecrow's words), etc.. Logically, she should have been out cold and twitchy until the antidote was administered.

[quote]milo have you never had a hallucinogen before? cuz their effects vary according to people's psychology, they vary in intensity over time, affect people differently, etc. This is a strange "continuity cop" tack for you to take.[/quote]
Except that every last person was immediately terrified of whatever was in front of them - this being Gotham, that's not a shock - except for the kid (who served as a device to make Holmes more of a heroine and throw out some 'I knew Batman would save us' lines).

Real-life 'set and setting' hallucinogen rules didn't apply - it was a weaponized drug that caused terror in everyone we saw use it, except for one convenient character. Otherwise how would the assassins' plot have worked? They needed everyone to go batshit and attack each other - if terror wasn't an inherent consequence of exposure, maybe everyone would have just stared at the wall for a few hours and not destroyed the city.

A) Scarecrow menaces them, causing them to wig out;
B) Unknown people lurch towards them like zombies, causing them to wig out.

Also, the kid WAS wigging out, or did you think that Scarecrow's horse was actually breathing fire at that point?

Everyone is momentarily dazed and then goes insane with terror. The only individual shown without this reaction to all stimuli is the kid (so that his role as a plot device can be fulfilled).