Joni Mitchell: Classic or Dud

She probably make a mint off the Counting Crows cover, our suffering for her gain I suppose. Aside from that, I have no idea. Musician's income always break down in weird ways. But:

amateurist I definitely think there are a lot of artists for whom the royalties eventually "dry up."

I'd say "all artists with few exceptions". (Except film composers, it seems.)

Oh big $ if you can turn your catalogue into a hit musical, in case any musicians here had a catalogue that could be turned into a hit musical

She probably make a mint off the Counting Crows cover, our suffering for her gain I suppose.

Or how about the Janet Jackson sample?

Think the income for a lot of established artists comes more from investments, not that some of them (Billy Joel, L.Cohen) don't have their personal Madoffs, as it turns out, The ones who actually get enough royalties to invest, that is--for the other side, see an epic and cogent discussion in Ruth Brown's autobio, Miss Rhythm: backstory of the Rhythm & Blues Foundation, set up to establish, collect and distribute what a lot of artists, famous and otherwise, should have been receiving all through their careers (Atlantic Records giving a new meaning to "loss leader").
Not so much of a problem with white classic rock royalty, it seems. Indeed, remember reading in Billboard, early in the Napster era, that big companies weren't offering good deals to new artists because had so much tied up in long term deals w Clapton, Phil Collins etc.

I think the key is when someone covers your song. Your own album, the labels fuck you over and do everything they can not to pay you what's owed. But when someone covers your song, it seems like the payout comes much faster, perhaps for legal/licensing reasons. We've talked about it before, but I've always wondered what, say, Wire makes off REM. Or, you know, Leonard Cohen from his surprise credit on "Automatic for the People."

Well if you own the publishing (i.e. the composition itself) and someone covers it, you get paid through ASCAP/BMI iirc. There's no licensing issue to deal with, it's a "compulsory license." I think this is right, anyway -- I did study this at one point but never actually worked in the field so it's rusty.

I think ASCAP/BMI basically keep track of performances/radio plays/sales of the cover version for you.

royalties checks for legacy artists are probably still pretty good. I'm still getting checks (they don't pay the rent, but they help with it) on stuff I released twenty years ago that almost nobody's ever heard of. there is, as the last number of posts illustrate, a huge system of how publishing money works, and a lot of options (sell your publishing outright / license your songs / other people cover them and you get your percentage / etc) - these options are easier to exploit if you're more famous or have written songs lots of people recognize. Hurting's right about the compulsory license.

But Joni Mitchell probably isn't issuing the boxed set because her royalties stream from 30-year-old back catalog suddenly dried up. It probably experienced a the same sharp correction everybody else experienced right around 2001, but the checks are probably still pretty good.

Wish Joni had a boat named 'James Blake'

I would think Joni's got money coming in from a bunch of different streams - let's not forget she's also a painter

Would think (unless he got ripped off on older publishing too) Cohen might do alright from covers of "Hallelujah" alone (various heard in syndicated TV eps pretty often, most often Rufus Wainwright's---Willie Nelson's is my fave, maybe cos he doesn't sound too fervent)

I guess I can see how being a legacy artist who's not constantly performing could still have some precarity -- the money can probably be unpredictable and you have to stretch it to last a long time. So Mitchell = probably not poor, but maybe needs to do a new project once in a while to ensure comfortable retirement.

remember that cohen had all his money fucked away by an unscrupulous manager some years ago

that said, i'm sure that royalties from hallelujah (not to mention his endless touring) have kept him well in the black ever since

Cohen has said that touring has largely refilled those coffers.

This is an interesting topic that really deserves its own thread. FWIW when Richard Wright of Pink Floyd (stratospheric, I know) died his estate was worth £24 million.

All Who tours undertaken between 1989 and 2002 were done to keep John Entwistle out of debt. Ironically, much of his debt was incurred because he went out-of-pocket keeping his solo band on club tours that never broke even (though his spending on guitars, basses, cars, taxidermied fish, and a collection of medieval armor probably didn't help). When he died, all his possessions had to be auctioned off to pay outstanding debts and settle his estate's tax.

Worth keeping in mind that Richard Wright had many Floyd writing credits on albums that sell bazillions. Entwistle ... less so.

I would read an entire book on this stuff. It's fascinating to me how a single savvy decision like making sure to get co-writing credit or just how good/bad the terms of a certain deal are can become such a make or break for an artist for years to come.

sideline, but there was already a Joni box set, guys

http://www.amazon.com/Studio-Albums-1968-Joni-Mitchell/dp/B0097AQEOK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413561012&sr=8-1&keywords=joni+mitchell+box

and its incredibly inexpensive and wonderful

wow, that's a great deal

Indeed. Would also like to hear her choice & sequence of tracks, her implicit narrative.

I would read an entire book on this stuff. It's fascinating to me how a single savvy decision like making sure to get co-writing credit or just how good/bad the terms of a certain deal are can become such a make or break for an artist for years to come.

― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Friday, October 17, 2014 11:47 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This one is pretty great:
http://www.amazon.com/You-Never-Give-Your-Money/dp/0061774189

Indeed. Would also like to hear her choice & sequence of tracks, her implicit narrative.

― dow, Friday, October 17, 2014 10:55 AM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's called iTunes, and it's free!

sort of

Is Joni still represented by Elliott Roberts? If he's been able to keep Neil Young solvent, she should be a cakewalk.

no Who album has ever sold as much as Pink Floyd album. It's like comparing, I dunno, Tom Petty sales to Zep's.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Dark Side has sold more than the Who's whole catalog combined.

money, it's a gas

finally sprung for the joni studio albums 1968-1979 collection, i have a few already (mostly on vinyl) but at $40 for 10 albums it is a great deal. $4 an album is lovely.

yeah, I picked it up last year. was waiting for some sooper deluxe editions to drop but she seems uninterested in that and the price was right.

Gosh Miles of Aisles is great -- love hearing the band from that era jam out

― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:28 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, this is SO good

really been enjoying don juan's reckless daughter lately! doesn't seem to have been received as well but I find it pretty close to Hejira in terms of quality even though it's much looser in its experimentation

we are in synch! I drove around town listening to this yesterday and it's such a great record- "Paprika Plains"! amazing!

(not to dwell in the past but this was a big bjork fave that she was listening to a lot while finalizing "vespertine" and it shows, I think)

Could totally see that re: bjork

yeah i've always been surprised at how overlooked Reckless Daughter is to this day, even amongst Hejira stans

I love Jaco's bass. Anyone who says otherwise should not be trusted on anything.

― Tim F, Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:22 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes!

Jaco's alright if you like bass farts

I fucking hate Jaco, will never mature out of that opinion. He's where I draw the line.

my wife told me she couldn't handle hissing of the summer lawns this weekend and i was like :^0

hurting i guess you do not like hejira or don juan's reckless daughter then

and i think you makes just a lil fucked up tbqf

I love "Dreamland" so goddamn much that I almost never play anything else off that record

and i think *that you makes *you just a lil fucked up tbqf

sorry about typos i need to make this message clear

Hurting otm

I'm not a Jaco fan either, but I love Hejira.

Couldn't make it through Mingus, though.

mingus is not as good on first listen but i could see myself developing some kind of affection for it

and yes dreamland is WONDERFUL xp

Hejira is pretty much the only place I can tolerate Jaco, and barely. Actually there are one or two Weather Report tunes I like him on, but overall nope. BYOW BYOW BYOOOOWWWW

hey, do that again. i liked that.

yea!