So where do those indie influences go?
Also -- Meg & Dia placed very high in Absolutepunk polls for 2006. AP is more open-minded than AlternativePress forums, but still, co-opting that album as a punk album is a stretch-and-a-half. So maybe there's a reverse influence we haven't noticed. Last year, the intro to this forum was talking about how pop-punk (like Bowling for Soup) was becoming teenpop. But what I missed was that pop was becoming pop-punk was becoming punk. (And now I see Absolutepunk.net posted the new Modest Mouse single, which just confuses everything.)
― Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link
Looking forward to what Skye comes up with.
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link
Impossible, because she's been trying to ixnay the tabloid thing. In fact, she's arguably been less successful by resisting them than Lindsay, who has for better or worse thrown herself into it and at least topped year-end lists for "Most Annoying" or whatever else. I mean, Lindsay could even go INDIE CRED at this point if she wanted to (which she very well might do with her film career). Ashlee will probably never have cred, since by all rights she should already have it (how much more "rock" could Ashlee even go?)
Unless you consider getting a nosejob "asking for it" in terms of tabloid coverage, I see Ashlee as a fairly resistant victim of tabloid culture who in her professional life (e.g. leading role in Chicago in London) is trying to gain "credibility" and very clearly shuns tabloid coverage (she never answers questions about the n'job).
― nameom (nameom), Thursday, 4 January 2007 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link
As for UK teenpop, we have Lil Chris where Sweden has Amy Diamond and I think that pretty much says it all. Even teenage popstars have to get Jo Whiley's permission these days. I do think there might be a place for a pop group aiming at under-12s though, as High School Musical has been very successful here, and hideous childrens TV show theme songs (namely LazyTown, which I hadn't even heard of before I saw the music video) can still go top 5. I think Chipz should be launched here!
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Friday, 5 January 2007 01:38 (seventeen years ago) link
I was going to say something about Lil Chris, then wondered whether he wasn't really teenpop but pop for older people to think was teen? Either way, I agree wholly about the Whiley Factor. Good god, I hate that woman. Not quite as much as I hate that Sportacus git from Lazytown (which takes over TMF for TWO HOURS every morning) but still.
― Hazel Robinson (Moggy), Friday, 5 January 2007 02:06 (seventeen years ago) link
Also must give thanks to this thread for making me stop and check out Brie Larson finally - going by all the subcult trappings of her nonmusic activities I bet she won't be making teenpop much longer, for better or worse.
― Zoilus (zoilus), Friday, 5 January 2007 02:09 (seventeen years ago) link
I'd like to see a heightened youth-Musical vibe to teen-pop actually. I was watching Camp again for the umpteenth time last week and my boyfriend pointed out that no-one really tends to put out songs like "Here's Where I Stand" anymore (when did they?). The closest is Christina Aguilera but her big numbers don't grapple with youth in the same way.
I guess I'm asking for more earnestness! Sorry Lex!
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 5 January 2007 03:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Friday, 5 January 2007 04:27 (seventeen years ago) link
The teens I know here do indeed like, say, MCR, Marilyn Manson, AFI and maybe some emo bands.
Back to blindiningly obvious--when does it stop being teenpop, I mean, especially considering that most of the first wave are all growed up and all? Is it an age, a marketing idea, a concept of an age group or an aesthetic that's temprally bound or, um, what?
― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Friday, 5 January 2007 04:38 (seventeen years ago) link
Kelly Clarkson - "Because of You" (January 6, 2006) Fall Out Boy - "Dance, Dance" (January 17, 2006) Mariah Carey - "Don't Forget About Us" (February 6, 2006)Madonna - "Hung Up" (February 6, 2006)Kelly Clarkson - "Walk Away" (June 1, 2006)Fall Out Boy - "A Little Less Sixteen Candles, A Little More "Touch Me"" (June 6, 2006) Red Hot Chili Peppers - "Dani California" (July 10, 2006) Fort Minor - "Where'd You Go" (July 17, 2006) Christina Aguilera - "Ain't No Other Man" (September 26, 2006) Justin Timberlake featuring Timbaland - "SexyBack" (October 10, 2006) AFI - "Love Like Winter" (December 11, 2006)
Nothing too shocking here, Kelly Clarkson and Fall Out Boy are huge of course, as we all know. A bit surprised to see "Hung Up" and the Chilis here, but whatever, maybe it's just that the videos were great. And what's up with no Fergie-ferg. Screw you kids.
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 05:33 (seventeen years ago) link
it is funny but - like a lot of their earnest material - it's funny precisely because it's over-earnest! and i love it but at heart it's a cathartic rock song which takes more cues from courtney love than anything else lohan has sung. essentially - i am fine with this being a key part of teenpop but it's ALL like this now.
I was going to say something about Lil Chris, then wondered whether he wasn't really teenpop but pop for older people to think was teen?
i think this is correct, he seems pitched very much at an older popjustice demographic. anyway don't get me started on lil fucking chris, everyone i know loves it but it just fills me with horror. more proof that pop has forgotten a key First Principle ie "we dance to disco and we DON'T. LIKE. ROCK."
― lex pretend (lex pretend), Friday, 5 January 2007 10:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Friday, 5 January 2007 12:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 5 January 2007 15:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link
I must say I don't really understand the rock/pop dichotomy Lex appears to use here much - at least not in relation to teenpop. "U + Ur Hand" is a good example of the murkiness of the divide at the moment: yes, the chorus is the big earnest rock soar, but it's simultaneously the big pop manoeuvre within the song (conversely the "mature" "Nobody Knows" is like Pink's rapprochement with Christina Aguilera).
Of course I'm sure no-one at this thread would be pleased if rocky teenpop came at the expense of stuff like, say, "A Public Affair", but as per Frank I don't think pop is currently so dominated by one idea that this could happen. The success of Fergie and Nelly Furtado last year show this - "Hollaback Girl" has become a pop sub-genre now in the same way that "Sk8ter Boi" became a pop sub-genre in 2003/4.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:13 (seventeen years ago) link
Lady Sovereign's "Love Me Or Hate Me" triumphed on TRL, but this didn't result in radio play; Pink's "U & Ur Hand" got only minor radio action; ditto Paris's "Nothing In This World."
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 5 January 2007 19:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― Je4nn3 Fuhfuh (Je4nne Fury), Friday, 5 January 2007 19:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Thomas Inskeep (submeat), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:09 (seventeen years ago) link
Looking up the current TRL voting list, the first act I've found is a teen r'n'b boyband called 2Much. They're similar to B2K, who I know were successful - would we call this teenpop or is it just r'n'b marketed to a younger audience (or perhaps the usual audience, just with singers of their own age)?
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link
Anyway: I loved Camp.
― Mordechai Shinefield (Mordy), Friday, 5 January 2007 21:02 (seventeen years ago) link
(Wikipedia: Got to #12 on Hot 100 in its second week, stayed in the charts from April to July, "Soundtrack to Your Life" hovered in the 50-ish range.)
― nameom (nameom), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:50 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:11 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcEfQr4J6yo
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:14 (seventeen years ago) link
The Corbin Bleu song is pretty likable, I think, but pallid not only in comparison to - say - JoJo or Chris Brown, but also in comparison to old *NSync and New Kids In The Block.
Jordan Pruitt, she of "Outside Looking In," a quite winning bit of teen-sensitive alienation, is now heading towards dance pop: "We Are Family" and the new one, "Step To The Rhythm" - which is not an amazing song, but her timbre is excellent in a way that I can't think how to describe. It's got enough burrs and bumps to give it character, but it still basically flows. Album due February 6. "Teenager," on her MySpace, has stereotypical words about supposed teen concerns, but the voice gives it feelings that the words only wave at.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:34 (seventeen years ago) link
Speaking of rock bands, Enter Shikari seems to be the big one for the UK in 2007. Their concerts often end in ambulances being called, so that will attract all the young lads who like to show off their bruises.
I think music for British teenagers is so much a badge of identity, that predicting who they'll like is just like predicting fashion trends. It's all part of the tribal thing that seems to be more prevalent than ever in schools. When I was there (and that wasn't long ago) I didn't have to choose whether to be a chav or emo, and now if you're 14 and you don't fit into one or the other you'll probably get beaten up by both sides. It's like hippies and punks and mods and rockers, and yet I don't feel any of the revolutionary spirit that was supposedly surrounding those tribes. I don't think these kids are going to look back in 20 years nostalgically at being emo... or am I wrong? It all just seems very negative, hating themselves, hating other people. A lot could be read into it sociologically.
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:39 (seventeen years ago) link
Frank, I love Jordan Pruitt. And I agree that she's a really great singer (and not just good at singing but good at framing and phrasing the lyrics, if that makes sense), but that some of the songwriting is not up to snuff. Fortunately, "Jump to the Rhythm", her worst written song in my opinion, is not written by the team (Robin Scoffield and Keith Thomas) that are writing the rest of her record. "Outside Looking In" and "Teenager" are. Give this girl some great songs and that could be an outstanding album.
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― Greg Fanoe (JustFanoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:46 (seventeen years ago) link
I have been a-scouting for the Jukebox, and have turfed up a fair amount of teenpop from Germany that I might get around to putting in here - none of it's wonderful, though.
― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 6 January 2007 00:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jessica P (Jessica P), Saturday, 6 January 2007 00:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 6 January 2007 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYdc3-Kfu_Y
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 6 January 2007 03:41 (seventeen years ago) link
The pop music I like has never been so stupid as to say such things.
Personally, for non-sincerity-obsessed teenpop, I'd recommend that Lex maybe start with the Aquamarine and Darcy's Wild Life soundtracks.
Beyond that, this thread has already left me in the dust, after only three short days. If I'm this far behind now, where will I be come October?
Finally, has anybody listened to the Paula DeAnda album? Sounds as mediocre and forgettable and unexuberant and unbubblegum and fade-into-the-background-leaving-me-clueless-about-why-anybody-gives-a-flying-fuck as Ciara or Cassie or [fill in the blank] to me, but I'm willing to hear any reasonably intelligent arguments otherwise.
― xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 6 January 2007 17:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 6 January 2007 17:17 (seventeen years ago) link
isn't criticising cassie for not being bubblegum or exuberant a bit like, i dunno, criticising ashlee for not being restrained enough? i mean, in naming cassie and ciara you've basically named my the two popstars who've stood head and shoulders above everyone else in recent times, so i'm confused as to why they don't grab you. certainly what they're doing is interesting enough to be admired even if it's not your thing.
fwiw cassie does get bubblegum in places on her album - the album tracks are much gentler than the singles. 'what do u want' sounds like one of paris hilton's rockier numbers, and 'ditto' is charming and girlish.
it should have been obvious to all that my call for less sincerity is actually a call for less bloody guitars.
― lex pretend (lex pretend), Saturday, 6 January 2007 17:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 6 January 2007 17:24 (seventeen years ago) link
(Fwiw, the teenpop album I've probably listened to most this week is Wild Orchid's debut album from, like, 1993 or thereabouts, featuring one Stacy Ferguson, which I found for $0.80 at a Half-Price Books in Houston last week. Their followup was good too, but my copy of that is in storgage apparently. At the time they seemed like not-quite-Latin-enough Latin freestyle, but now they seem a lot closer to the Latin freestyle era than this one. Or at least to the Seduction era.)
― xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 6 January 2007 17:32 (seventeen years ago) link
sincerity was a red herring i think. but comparing ashlee to britney - even when ashlee's being funny, singing about parties, the fact that she's doing it over instrumentation which owes more to heavy rock than any other genre, and in a voice which is very keen to emphasise how much genuine emotion it sings with...kind of puts her on the earnest side of things. whereas britney, even when she was singing about intense emotion, did it with...froth, and plastic, such that people sneered that she didn't know what she was singing about.
― lex pretend (lex pretend), Saturday, 6 January 2007 17:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― xhuxk (xheddy), Saturday, 6 January 2007 17:42 (seventeen years ago) link