Ariel Pink

Ariel Pink is not famous.

i feel like this dichotomy is always bizarrely stated on ilx, maybe bc that's how the puritans understand it. but it's not "the music is too good to ignore bc the person is bad" v. "the person is bad it's wrong to listen to the music (and besides there's other good music)." i don't feel any kind of moral involvement in the music i listen to (or movies i watch, games i play, etc). if the person is bad that can be an important part of the art - you don't need to separate them out - and it can even enrich your understanding of the artifact. there's no obligation to shield your eyes from the acts of evil men. just don't be a bad person yourself.

yeah, most 18th century authors were probably anti semites and couldn't care less about women suffrage.

Both Ariel Pink and Grimes are petty jerks nonetheless.

grimes is not a petty jerk

wait why is Grimes a petty jerk?

Her break up with Arbutus was idiotic, selfish and petty.

Mordy otm

if you genuinely read the accusations against the-dream and deleted all your files of the-dream, or belatedly heard what lindsey buckingham's ex said about him in her memoir and tossed your copy of rumours, etc etc, than...that's cool! you should be proud of yourself. personally, i feel like telling myself "i don't supporting the creative efforts of bad people" would lead to me rationalizing things away to maintain that pious state (if no r kelly, no aerosmith? no chris brown, no james brown? michael jackson?). so instead i just try to not to assume valor on the part of artists just because of their work/pr, and if i do or do not want to listen to an album because i've heard something awful about them, so be it. there certainly have been artists whose charges against them were so noxious i didn't want to engage with their work, but stepping from that to "i don't support bad people" is just a degree of self-flattery i can't take. instead i have to settle for "don't assume people who've made creative works you enjoy are good people, and try to be respectful of possible victims in how you speak about their alleged abusers."

Her break up with Arbutus was idiotic, selfish and petty.

Please expand, because this is the first I've ever heard of her move away from that label being anything other than just a thing that happened.

i feel like this dichotomy is always bizarrely stated on ilx, maybe bc that's how the puritans understand it. but it's not "the music is too good to ignore bc the person is bad" v. "the person is bad it's wrong to listen to the music (and besides there's other good music)." i don't feel any kind of moral involvement in the music i listen to (or movies i watch, games i play, etc). if the person is bad that can be an important part of the art - you don't need to separate them out - and it can even enrich your understanding of the artifact. there's no obligation to shield your eyes from the acts of evil men. just don't be a bad person yourself.

― Mordy, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 3:18 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea otm^^^. i mean i think for me personally there is definitely a limit on this, and to a point it interferes with my enjoyment of the work, but fucking seriously how sure and confident are you that every author you read, every movie you watch, every artist you enjoy, every musician you like, is an ethical person with acceptable views on all matters of importance to you? what is your filtering process? how do you make sure? do you give an artist the benefit of the doubt until some news story comes out that makes them sound like an asshole?

da croupier also otm xxp

Her break up with Arbutus was idiotic, selfish and petty.

Please expand, because this is the first I've ever heard of her move away from that label being anything other than just a thing that happened.

― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 3:34 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://twitter.com/elite_gz/status/411678740909809664

Oh, okay. Seems like she was owed $$$ and wasn't getting it, so I don't see why she's not within her rights to shit talk them on twitter about it.

It's more complicated than that and from what I gather they did everything in their capacity to pay her in time and successfully so.

that's really the wrong thread to be discussing this.

james brooks =/= grimes last I checked. And maybe james brooks could weigh in a little better but my impression was that it was water-under-bridges?

The repeated refrain is that "all artists are assholes" or "50% of artists are assholes" but irl actually very very few artists are assholes, very fucking few people, and I talk shit about next-to-nobody

Loving that the Ariel Pink thread is about Grimes and the Grimes thread is about Madonna rn

She goes on and on about Arbutus in that twitter thread, its not just Brooks.

do you work for Arbutus? it seems a weird thing for a private citizen to become upset over

wait, Arbutus won't hire private citizens?

i'm not upset about what happened really, just that her attitude wrt arbutus was despicable and that she is not the saint some people make her out to be. not the first time i accused her of that here.

i do agree with her when it comes to calling out ariel pink, to be fair.

also, what? private citizen?

if Rob Ford were upset, T'ship could understand

(but I still get what T'ship meant and agree with it)

Was thinking private citizen vs public avenger

his albums are boring and his mouth is more boring, who cares.

just that her attitude wrt arbutus was despicable

I don't know any of the people who started/run Arbutus, but the common misconception that everyone who runs a diy/indie label with cool musicians is a decent person. Sooooo not the case sometimes.

lmaooo forever at EG / DG being called boring in the context of a thread about Ariel fucking Pink

it's true though!

I am not a huge Ariel Pink fan by any means but ... the thread that was just above this one in SNA is "top ten things winona ryder has done in life" -- there are multiple power dynamics at play -- yes, one is a man criticizing a woman, but the woman has way more power: fame, capital, fans -- than the man criticizing her. Can we not criticize celebrities whose ethnic/gender/racial identities are more historically marginalized than ours?

I don't know any of the people who started/run Arbutus, but the common misconception that everyone who runs a diy/indie label with cool musicians is a decent person. Sooooo not the case sometimes.

― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:15 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I know people who are very close to the label, they have their fault sure but what Grimes did was hideous. Whatever.

Can we not criticize celebrities whose ethnic/gender/racial identities are more historically marginalized than ours?

you can, i just recommend putting more thought into it than ariel pink does

His comments re: Madonna aren't any more misogynistic than some of the posts in that winona ryder thread is all I'm saying

I don't know any of the people who started/run Arbutus, but the common misconception that everyone who runs a diy/indie label with cool musicians is a decent person. Sooooo not the case sometimes.

― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:15 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I know people who are very close to the label, they have their fault sure but what Grimes did was hideous. Whatever.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:27 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

scroll down in that twitter thread and you can find other arbutus artists defending them btw

who is james brooks?

the guy who co-developed the simpsons and wrote/directed broadcast news, terms of endearment and other fine films?

That's James L. Brooks.

James Brooks is the guy that taught Pitchfork all about Kpop.

*headdesks* i had no clue who the frontperson or whatever of elite gymnastics was thanks

"who is james brooks" is usually the most appropriate response to mentions of james brooks imo

are you the bobos in paradise guy?

i couldn't imagine having an opinion about any of this

i'm sure you actually do

in all fairness "james brooks" is correct because after all elite gymnastics does suck

there's a p high likelihood that that is actually him tbh

hi james

what if Ariel Pink was raped by Michael Jackson as a child?

Is that cover song he did for the Madonna tribute album any good?

The line-up was quite interesting. I wanted it for Apollo Heights mostly.

what if Ariel Pink was raped by Michael Jackson as a child?

― sugar in my mac and ciccone old (sarahell), Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:25 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wtf

Is that cover song he did for the Madonna tribute album any good?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 3:28 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Speaking as a fan, no.

james if that was actually you, if nothing else i've always appreciated that your twitter avi is holly hunter as GJ from top of the lake, that series ruled

No post on thi forum managed to clearly explin how critising maddonas music is mysogynist yet btw

bullshit move calling ariel a misogynist on fuckin twitter because your bff is now working somehow w/ madonna.

can we have some chritian kindness aournd here? snoop calling iggy a cunt, grimes calling ariel a dickhead, whats wrong with people