Such bold truths being told.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:20 (nine years ago) link
Exhibit A:Kessler is hot and probably doesn't have the clap so there's that!
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 May 2014 19:31 (4 months ago) Permalink
― Twist of Caliphate (Bob Six), Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:26 (nine years ago) link
Just trying to give the benefit of the doubt, that's all. I don't like to assume the worst in people without a certain amount of information.
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:28 (nine years ago) link
behind everyone doing something sexist or racist or homophobic will always be some clichéd idiot saying "WAIT DON'T JUDGE THEM"
― lex pretend, Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:32 (nine years ago) link
PJ's general appearance/demeanor isn't "cute". I'd describe her stage presence as compelling, commanding, mysterious. At least every time I've seen her. In this video, she looks cute. She's having fun, smiling. Like a young Linda Ronstadt almost.
God, I want that Firebird.
― how's life, Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:47 (nine years ago) link
― lex pretend, Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:32 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm an idiot? You're right, I should judge people when I have sufficient information. Let me try. You're an asshole.
Fun!
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:53 (nine years ago) link
Behind every witch-hunt there's always some cliched idiot who rushed to condemn without sufficient evidence
― Twist of Caliphate (Bob Six), Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:54 (nine years ago) link
Who is that Macklemore-looking dude playing bass and what's with that gold knob on the horn?
― how's life, Thursday, 18 September 2014 12:59 (nine years ago) link
now that's a lead.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 September 2014 13:01 (nine years ago) link
good fucking god, saying "judging a woman on whether she gives you a boner or not" is sexist does not amount to a bloody witch hunt, get over yourselves
― lex pretend, Thursday, 18 September 2014 13:14 (nine years ago) link
Who is that Macklemore-looking dude playing bass
Simon 'Dingo' Archer; AFAIK she borrowed him from The Fall for the 2004 tour.
― mthrn, Thursday, 18 September 2014 13:17 (nine years ago) link
Cool! Thanks.
― how's life, Thursday, 18 September 2014 13:18 (nine years ago) link
I miss her power trio.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 18 September 2014 13:36 (nine years ago) link
Me too. I was at this show, right up in front; when this song kicked in, the crowd surged forward, and those of us up against the stage obviously had nowhere to go. I had bruises on my stomach for weeks afterward.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cEw8nMfzI8
It was a good show, but at the time the band members seemed remote from one another. I later read that they'd decided to break up earlier in the tour, but stayed together to finish out the dates.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 18 September 2014 13:49 (nine years ago) link
Bruises?! That's nuts!
― cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera), Thursday, 18 September 2014 14:06 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, it was pretty scary, actually. After this song, a bunch of us in the front retreated to the back of the crowd and exchanged "Are you OK?"s. Lots of crowd-surfing at this show, too, which was really annoying.
Almost forgot to mention, Scrawl was one of the openers! They killed, but the crowd wasn't that into them for some reason.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 18 September 2014 14:23 (nine years ago) link
Man, Scrawl ...
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 18 September 2014 14:26 (nine years ago) link
this thread is a fine example of What It Feels Like For A Woman Who Talks About Music Online, so thanks for that dudes
― maura, Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:38 (nine years ago) link
All I wanted to do was have you consider that outdoorfish was perhaps not evaluating PJ Harvey entirely on her looks based on that comment alone. I wasn't defending the general act of evaluating someone entirely on their looks, or based on what men think, or whatever else.
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:55 (nine years ago) link
Jfc
― kinder, Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:56 (nine years ago) link
oh evan. oh, oh, oh, evan.
― maura, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:10 (nine years ago) link
*considers, rolls eyes, goes back to thinking about "To Bring You My Love" instead of this nonsense*
― 💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:10 (nine years ago) link
like... not to be all proprietary but the problem here is that the discussion of her looks was what LED the discussion, even though her MUSIC is, you know, next-level
i know that you probably have zero idea of what it means like to be a woman, so here's a thought experiment: imagine having every endeavor you do viewed through a prism of whether or not you are "cute" or "fuckable" or etc. that atmosphere is what makes 'well-meaning' comments like outdoorsfish's - especially when viewed in light of reams of galleries of female musicians that put their looks first, and thinkpieces that wax poetic on artists' 'sexiness' in such a way to make their music incidental and oh, so much more - utterly toxic and worthy of being called out, good intentions or no.
― maura, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:14 (nine years ago) link
i mean ffs it's not like she doesn't explicitly reference this bullshit double standard in her work or anything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuJE40OBt48
― maura, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:15 (nine years ago) link
"never really found her cute, before this..." is such a hideous, indefensible sentiment, even if evan is somehow tuned to the total cerebral network of outdoorfish
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:24 (nine years ago) link
it's really all in the ellipses
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:25 (nine years ago) link
I'm just overly optimistic about people. I was considering that it may have been poor wording. I get it.
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:31 (nine years ago) link
― Evan, Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:31 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha fuck off and die
― mattresslessness, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:37 (nine years ago) link
Sure!
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:38 (nine years ago) link
it does make sense that the logical conclusion of pollyannaism is to render oneself utterly, wilfully blind to the structural inequalities and specific dickishness arising thereof in the world
― lex pretend, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:40 (nine years ago) link
I just needed a little more evidence. "Utterly, wilfully blind" is a bit of an exaggeration.
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:45 (nine years ago) link
I know saying I'm overly optimistic sounds self congratulatory, I didn't mean it like that. Can we not ask someone to fuck off and die?
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:49 (nine years ago) link
pretty please?
― mattresslessness, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:51 (nine years ago) link
i didn't ask
oh it's that bit of the argument where the people objecting to misogyny etc are told off for being impolite
every. single. time
― lex pretend, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:52 (nine years ago) link
OK I'm not on the "advocating misogyny" side either. Thanks. I just don't like being told to fuck off and die. Not attempting to distract.
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:54 (nine years ago) link
fuck off and die
― mattresslessness, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:55 (nine years ago) link
you are worthless
― mattresslessness, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:58 (nine years ago) link
matt, go enjoy a cup of chamomille tea or something.
― how's life, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:59 (nine years ago) link
cut it out already
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:59 (nine years ago) link
yup always the people being "impolite" told to cut it out, yet i see none of evan's "cut it out"s aimed at the person being sexist
― lex pretend, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:00 (nine years ago) link
can't believe someone would object to being told to fuck off and die, every. single. time
― soref, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:01 (nine years ago) link
I don't advocate sexism. I was just hoping outdoorfish didn't mean it that way.
― Evan, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:08 (nine years ago) link
You can "not mean" to be sexist and still be sexist. That's kind of why these inequalities are seen as structural.
― maura, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:09 (nine years ago) link
not an attempt to stir, but I'm curious what people think about when and how it is/isn't appropriate to discuss pop stars physical appearance and desirability and how they shape the way you engage with them and how this relates to the gender of the pop star and the writer etc, it seems a big part of pop music/fandom, is there an ilx thread specifically about this it seems like something that must have happened over the last 14 years at some point, also it seems depressing that approx 30% of the P J Harvey thread is responding to this one post
― soref, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:12 (nine years ago) link
well i wrote this primer two years ago, and am bummed that it needs revising to be more 'strident'http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/02/sexism_women_in_rock_female_musicians.php
― maura, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:30 (nine years ago) link
seems to me like maura, mattress, etc are ganging up on evan for no reason. his offhand comment, which he admitted was just trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, doesn't warrant being told to "fuck off and die". ya'll are totally immature, and give women a terrible stigma. which i think you were trying to do the opposite of? so great job guys. maybe get back to talking about the thing this thread is actually about (MUSIC), and go let out your unhappiness on some other message board or gawker comment section.
― juicebox, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:43 (nine years ago) link
so pleased we have juice box watching for women stigmatizing themselves
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:44 (nine years ago) link
Here: thread to argue about whether sexism is inherent to the discussion of image/appearance/attractiveness of musicians
A new place to take this discussion.
― how's life, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:44 (nine years ago) link
i'm sorry, where did i say that i co-signed the 'fuck off and die' comment? i don't, and i think my comments on the thread bear it out.
― maura, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:45 (nine years ago) link