i don't really feel qualified to play monday night quarterback with regard to obama's middle east policy. bret stephens believes that bush had the answer, which is that the US must project power abroad to maintain global order. we've only ever done this surreptitiously though; the myth of the sovereignty of our client states was never something we abandoned. reagan wasn't open about his involvement in nicaragua. cold war conflicts were justified in national security terms -- communism was framed as an existential threat. what stephens is calling for seems out of line, not with the practice of foreign policy in past administrations but with the theory. it's disingenuous for him to frame obama's relatively hands off policy -- as he understands it -- as a diversion from the mainstream of what presidents have done. i think the real situation here is that there was no clear series of moves that would have prevented the rise of the islamic state that didn't involve US troops staying in iraq.
― Treeship, Monday, 15 September 2014 00:36 (nine years ago) link
would be v. happy to never read anyone praise truman or the odious acheson as 'great statesmen' who saved us all from postwar chaos et al ever again.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 15 September 2014 21:42 (nine years ago) link
you might want to avoid the recent 'the unknown known' film about rumsfeld
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 04:17 (nine years ago) link
ha -- i'm a fan of morris but couldn't bring myself to spend two hours with rumsfeld.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 16 September 2014 04:24 (nine years ago) link
Does stupid stuff.
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 16 September 2014 23:22 (nine years ago) link
p. zero bama doesn't think it's important to put advocates of monetary stimulus on the Fed board?
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/18/6392635/obama-monetary-policy
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 19 September 2014 18:39 (nine years ago) link
7-4
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/sep/25/ryan-lizza/lizza-says-obama-has-bombed-more-nations-bush/
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 September 2014 15:40 (nine years ago) link
richard cohen regurgitating a narrative i've seen in many places
For a while Obama seemed to be sleepwalking through this unraveling, as if resigned to America’s more limited role. “The world has always been messy,” he said in August, sounding almost like a bystander. His attempt to calibrate every action, as if a perfect result were attainable, resulted in inaction. Vladimir Putin saw this. ISIS saw this. Now he has awoken to the need for American leadership and firmness. It is a belated awakening, but important. Syria has demonstrated how inaction can be more dangerous than the focused use of force, and a vacuum the best incubator of terrorism.
questions here. what would cohen have had obama do to provent putin's aggression. invade? start a war with russia? and in iraq, short of keeping ground troops there, what could obama have done to prevent the rise of ISIS. put "more pressure" on maliki to integrate sunnis into his government? but how? give "more support" to the syrian rebels? the support we did give them is the source of ISIS' current arsenal. follow through with his plans to bomb assad last year? that probably would have helped ISIS if anything.
when people say the president is "sleepwalking" or "inactive" or whatever, are they just saying that he has been too slow to go to war even though he has been controversially and illegally bombing several sovereign countries at a time since the day he got into office? and now that he has "woken up" to the importance of american unilateral power, does that mean that we will see more defense spending and more invasions and more violence perpetrated by america from now on? is the obnoxious smugness of cohen et al a winking acknowledgment that obama's original, stated goal as a candidate of focusing on domestic policy has been discredited? they say it in such a coded way.
― Treeship, Thursday, 25 September 2014 15:51 (nine years ago) link
that's a masterful recitation of received wisdom, Rich.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 25 September 2014 15:52 (nine years ago) link
It is a belated awakening, but important. Syria has demonstrated how inaction can be more dangerous than the focused use of force, and a vacuum the best incubator of terrorism.
srsly these sentences are deadwood. This is Heritage Foundation twaddle.
yeah, it's grotesque. "the king's come home at last." it sounds like every rogue group or leader in the world is just a disobedient child and all obama has to do is come in from the den and yell "enough!" to get them to sort themselves out. completely ignores the fact that literally no one who lives in these countries regards the united states as the legitimate authority there.
― Treeship, Thursday, 25 September 2014 15:59 (nine years ago) link
“The world has always been messy,” he said in August, sounding almost like a bystander. His attempt to calibrate every action, as if a perfect result were attainable, resulted in inaction. Vladimir Putin saw this.
this shit is so stupid. does he seriously not remember that russia invaded georgia when bush was president?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:08 (nine years ago) link
when people say the president is "sleepwalking" or "inactive" or whatever, are they just saying that he has been too slow to go to war even though he has been controversially and illegally bombing several sovereign countries at a time since the day he got into office?
unfortunately, yes that is exactly what they mean. obama's bombed more countries than bush did, and that's still not enough. these guys are out of their minds.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:10 (nine years ago) link
salient point
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:16 (nine years ago) link
it's almost as if various leaders are driven more by internal pressures than they are by empty American sabre-rattling
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:18 (nine years ago) link
George W. Bush is the man who saw into Vladimir Putin's soul and liked what he saw.
― Aimless, Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:19 (nine years ago) link
aimless, who is the worst american president of your lifetime in foreign policy terms?
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:20 (nine years ago) link
stiff competition
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:23 (nine years ago) link
Well, that's what he said... then. You must've missed these misgivings in a Maureen Dowd column.
The Russian leader told him the breakup of the Soviet Union was the worst thing that had ever happened. Tell it to Ukraine, W. dryly noted. He also said of Putin: "You always have to watch out when someone steeples their fingers."
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 September 2014 19:38 (nine years ago) link
does dowd just make things up or did bush have a crackling wit he carefully concealed from the american people during his time in office?
― Treeship, Thursday, 25 September 2014 20:13 (nine years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/VvrpsDg.png?1
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 25 September 2014 20:18 (nine years ago) link
so he should know!
Dubya is not an idiot. He's a shit, but not an idiot.
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 September 2014 20:21 (nine years ago) link
come on he's also kind of an idiot
― anonanon, Thursday, 25 September 2014 20:37 (nine years ago) link
who is the worst american president of your lifetime in foreign policy terms?
I started another thread to discuss this.
― Aimless, Thursday, 25 September 2014 20:59 (nine years ago) link
ACLU:
"By my count, the Obama administration has secured 526 months of prison time for national security leakers, versus only 24 months total jail time for everyone else since the American Revolution.... The bulk of that time is the 35 years in Fort Leavenworth handed down to Chelsea Manning."
https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/leak-prosecutions-obama-takes-it-11-or-should-we-say-526
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 October 2014 03:46 (nine years ago) link
you think he realises on any level that the cousin pookie thing is condescending and demeaning?
― tsrobodo, Monday, 20 October 2014 22:17 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/10/our-passe-president/381664/
not even cool now
― j., Tuesday, 21 October 2014 00:40 (nine years ago) link
that's who the Dems are interested in -- Cousin Pookie
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 00:54 (nine years ago) link
Cousin Pookie is back! And yes, he is still sitting on the couch.Washington Post - 2 days ago
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 22 October 2014 19:46 (nine years ago) link
I had no idea this was a type was invoked by name through New Jack City's Chris Rock crackhead
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 22 October 2014 19:50 (nine years ago) link
gawd cmon already if i come to your thing i come
― j., Wednesday, 21 January 2015 01:44 (nine years ago) link
http://gawker.com/the-state-of-the-union-is-dumb-hacks-writing-garbage-sp-1680681848
― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 02:33 (nine years ago) link
yet another reason to hate Woodrow Wilson
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 02:34 (nine years ago) link
command+f "terror" 9 matches
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 January 2015 02:39 (nine years ago) link
"middle-class economics" smh
― example (crüt), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 02:41 (nine years ago) link
This is so dull. Where are the flying cars and micro chips imbedded in our brains?
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 02:42 (nine years ago) link
who needs prose when Boehner's wearing a thistle-colored tie?
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 02:44 (nine years ago) link
Boehner's got a great glower. I love how he looks disgusted over every little bit of good news or silver lining. He just won't be happy until the economy is back in the shitter.
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 02:49 (nine years ago) link
had this thread open when Barack Obama said "my flaws, of which there are many"
― example (crüt), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:03 (nine years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:11 (nine years ago) link
Wtf is this bread bag speech?
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:28 (nine years ago) link
Oh I get it, nowadays we can't afford a bread bag
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:29 (nine years ago) link
I'll have to listen to this tomorrow, am I missing anything
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:29 (nine years ago) link
POTUS proposes, Boehner dozes.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:32 (nine years ago) link
did anybody yell "you lie!" yet
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:34 (nine years ago) link
The POTUS is laughing, goodbye, goodbye
― Free Me's Electric Trumpet (Moodles), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 03:35 (nine years ago) link
I've listened/watched all or nearly all his SOTU speeches and his delivery in each was identical. When you realize that no modern president will risk venturing into the higher flights of rhetoric for a SOTU, you learn to swallow your disappointment and listen for any scrap of matter that is a) specific, b) interesting in a non-horrific way, and c) achievable. There's at most one or two of these extremely dim highlights you can glean, at best. I can recall none from tonight's speech.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 21 January 2015 04:15 (nine years ago) link
He just won't be happy until the economy is back in the shitter.
back huh
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 January 2015 11:53 (nine years ago) link
Actually, when he asked early on, rhetorically, if it was fair that the wealthy kept getting richer at the expense of everyone else, or something along those lines, some voice did yell out "no!"
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 January 2015 14:18 (nine years ago) link
As boring as you'd expect. I thought "I know, because I won" was funny, though--played that for my class.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 21 January 2015 14:47 (nine years ago) link