2008 Primaries Thread

the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

otm

no one is talking about you shakey

you know what I've been "spoiled" by? 40 years of lousy government, with no end in sight.

well, finally: a more worthwhile conversation than will-Edwards-endorse- Obama.

I know someone said the word "nader" but can we all calm down?

wow this thread just because a thousand times more obnoxious than it normally is

i think if you pax taxes you should get to vote, it's kinda one of the founding principles of america

this gets the relationships backwards: rights to the franchise don't stem from one's status as a taxpayer

became^

if its just a case of pride, why can't I be proud that I'm one of the lone votes for some write-in candidate, as opposed to becoming complicit in the eventual crimes of someone I find completely abhorrent...?

i just think it's sad to do this, that's all. . .and how self-absorbed do you have to be to think you're "complicit" in the crimes of a president when, LOL, the president doesn't even know your name

going on ad nauseam about how everything in mass politics is so impure and disappointing and then dropping in a yearning for a little headknocking is straightup brownshirt talk

Shakey, here are your non-violent options. Remember: Good choices are made from good options.

big xpost to dan: i think it is an american principle that people's rights are natural and not derived from voting

nd how self-absorbed do you have to be to think you're "complicit" in the crimes of a president when, LOL, the president doesn't even know your name

wait so my vote DOESN'T matter? what are you on about.

xp: I bet he doesn't know the name of most of the folks who've been "dying for freedom" the last 6 years, either.

gff, I'll take necksize 15 1/2.

voting is not a mechanism for erecting a perfect social order for all time, it's a method for sorting out varying amounts of social power and possibly irrevocably pitched cultural and ideological conflicts without people killing each other

We're not changing anyone's mind here, folks.

going on ad nauseam about how everything in mass politics is so impure and disappointing and then dropping in a yearning for a little headknocking is straightup brownshirt talk

^^^ this

also, if Al Qaeda had managed to kill only the Clintons and Bushes, [SELF CENSORED FOR MY OWN PROTECTION]

hmm I don't really like any of those third-party options (McKinney? gtfo)

if Obama doesn't get the Dem nod maybe I'll just vote for Sun Ra

oh good someone said brownshirts. I'm going to the store. WORK IT OUT WHILE I'M GONE.

this country is built on headknocking and worse, wake up and smell the shit.

wow, I hate Democrats.

I don't really like any of those third-party options

THE PROHIBITION PARTY may be your salvation.

but... I love booze!

like Dubya, I couldn't have survived the last 8 years without it!

*chokes on pretzel*

I mean voting may be a 1 in 100 million thing but the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

I don't know if I completely buy this particular line of rhetoric. If the system doesn't work, it should be destabilized. If the form of that destabilization is the rise of another political party, that's great! If the form of that destabilization is rioting and civil war, that's not so good but maybe necessary...?

why should I be compelled to vote for one of the two major candidates?

You shouldn't be compelled to vote for anyone, let alone have your vote restricted to a Democrat or a Republican. If you choose not to vote for anyone at all, though, I don't want hear shit from you.

big xpost to dan: i think it is an american principle that people's rights are natural and not derived from voting

People have basic rights to life that should be guaranteed to them by the American government because they are citizens of the United States. The Bill of Rights didn't apply to slaves, dude.

Morbs, the history of almost any country is a catalog of crimes, blunders, and general human style twatwafflery, interspersed by moments when people actually get something positive done, Lord knows how. I agree about the 40 years of lousy government, but one thing I can say to the right-wing jackasses is, "If you dare fucking question my patriotismm or my committment to this republican experiment in democracy, I won't wave some flag in your face, I will simply say that I voted in every single election since my majority for which I was eligible, even some where I wasn't even in country."

but... I love booze!

changeyourevilways.jpeg

Whereas I would say, "Fuck off, right-wing jackass."

Srsly, why waste energy proving yourself to a jackass?

If the system doesn't work, it should be destabilized. ...If the form of that destabilization is rioting and civil war, that's not so good but maybe necessary...?

Join me on the barricades, Danno!

twatwafflery

nice word!

yeah really impacted Dubya's "legitimacy" didn'it (see 90% approval rating post-9/11 etc)

Well, actually.. Kerry might've contested all the irregularities and shady stuff happening in Ohio 2004, that Bush won the popular vote was one factor that had an effect on not challenging all that and demanding recounts. (Other factors I don't know.. Kerry being Kerry..)

Join me on the barricades, Danno!

Yeah so not ready to go there yet (but I recognize that, as a line of rhetoric, your viewpoint deserves airing)

The Bill of Rights didn't apply to slaves, dude.

Awesome justification, helps the people that picked your cilantro sleep at night I'm sure.

Srsly, why waste energy proving yourself to a jackass?

Committment to democratic dialogue.

Sorry, I just don't see why not giving my vote to one of two presidential nominees, after having debated their respective demerits for years, means I'm not participating in this great engine of liberty, especially when I can't use a write-in option; besides, by voting in my local race I feel enfranchised.

gore wouldn't have won the popular vote, which was of no official importance but plenty of rhetorical/cultural importance

In what way? Democrats repeated it ad nauseam en route to losing across the board in 2002 and 2004. No one cared. It didn't sway anyone. Didn't weaken Bush or the Republicans in the least.

what's better – glowing with civic responsibility like the thousands of Cuban-born citizens in Miami-Dade County who call the talk radios and plead, "Please tell me who to vote for"?

Awesome justification, helps the people that picked your cilantro sleep at night I'm sure.

lolololololololololololololololol

The one thing that keeps me voting in presidential elections is the Supreme Court pick.

i'm not really interested in this 'argument', i'm gonna keep morphin shit for now

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/allocryptic/barryclincain.jpg

barry mcclinton would like to show you his stimulus package

does anybody really think a system that arrives at Senator Travis Bickle and First Lady Wal-Mart is NOT broken?

Local voting is way more important and cost-effective (and still generally presents sucky choices in NYC).

America has principles?

Barry McClinton looks a little... gay.

Local voting is way more important and cost-effective

lol

Obama's latest endorsement.

Vote here! Only $5!

Post made pick purely for all-year MADRASSA headlines to come.

wow - looks like hillary's sit-down with the dirty digger didn't pay dividends after all

i'm sure her buddying with lindsey graham and trent lott will work out great, tho

voting is a about selecting the option which is most likely to give the result closest to your beliefs. how you do the "most likely" and "closest" math is up to you, but asking for one flick of the lever to give you the big rock candy mountain seems worse than stupid to me.

this isn't to preclude idealism, of any kind. i'm an idealist. however, asking for the entire political order to be based on a certain brand of idealism is...problematic, usually because you're just inviting a lot of disappointment on yourself when you inevitably don't get your wishes gratified. and also because people have tried to do it for real over the years and lots of people were killed.

"voting doesn't solve anything" may have a certain false ring of truth to it, but it only seems to resonate with people who think "voting should solve everything i care about right now."

sorry for the civics 101 but yeah i called morbs a nazi and then got godwin's invoked so i thought i'd explain myself.

ny post is being contrary, it would never endorse the same candidate as the NYT