Rolling afrobeats thread 2014

to get back to the og point tho i still dunno if deej was rly claiming that current us anglophilia actually is iho inhibiting possible avenues of reception for afropop or if that was just lashing out at whatever

i mean if it's any consolation we'd rather you didnt have larry fitzmaurice either

oh nah i wasn't saying anglophilia hurts our reception of afropop, if anything it improves the odds

i wouldn't think that [and i can go back and read the discussion re: uk funky i suppose] the resemblance is 'coincidental' as much as one would argue that its manifestation in the uk is like a satellite of something that was happening concurrently but idk.

im curious what tsrobodo thinks

Do Lagos djs use the same 4 MB tracks that the rest of us get or is there some secret underground community basking in 320s and wavs? These shitty versions seem so unnecessary.

It's also true that this (broad) sound has been emerging for years, long before Oliver Twist brought the discussion on here, it was emerging in 2008 and maybe before and that cross-pollination would have influenced funky as much as vice-versa. I'm not saying it's the main component and certainly not that it's present in all afrobeats records, but it's clearly not coincidental. There are azonto records that literally reference UK funky tracks, Donaeo pops up all over the place, lots of these videos are shot in London, but likewise the African influence in UK funky was greater than it is in most other UK dance genres. It's all cultural exchange.

This is ancient history now to a big extent and certain sounds are so much in the DNA of a lot of this music that I doubt it even occurs to the majority of producers or songwriters.

i honestly couldnt point to any substantive evidence that afropop/hiplife had a musical influence on funky's emergence or development... what direct interaction with africa there was was from south african house, mostly swish stuff like kentphonik and also very seldomly a ruffer bit like dj cndo 'terminator' (and 'township funk' duh)

also i don't really think of azonto coalescing at all until 2011 or so? (happy to be educated otherwise). funky had more or less run its course by then

tempting in retrospect to look at ramzee 'ghana riddim' (q1 2012) as an effective handover moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP0MyfxT2y4

The ppl I talked to root the afropop sound in early 90s pidgin English rap records followed by late 90s r&b and faux jiggy 90s rap. Nigeria also has a much larger population than the uk...saying this as someone who was drawn to afropop for it's similarities to uk funky, it still strikes me as reasonable that the continuity would be the presence of an immigrant population who kept in touch with popular music from home even though that music at the time may have had a less developed industry? Or less penetration on the national stage? I say this also because the nigerian immigrant population would be much more in touch with their culture at home than the diaspora of descendants of slaves who were ripped from theirs and whose cultures had to be created through that kind of distortion

Idk just seems feasible to me that uk funky would be an especially visible, market-ready version of a style of music already existent but this is somewhat devils advocatty

a typo after my own heart

er not a typo yknow what i mean

idk ur talking about a broader (naija-centred?) afropop (which i don't doubt has had a street pop element since the 90s) whereas rightly or wrongly i guess i'm more stuck on the idea of 213 azonto kicking off or reifying a fresh take of its own which has then spread across

like yeah when i was last heavily into this i'd had the vague mental grouping that nigeria had the flair for melodic synthy pop euphoria and ghana was really pioneering the intense freaky rhythmic dancehall vibe

to what extent that was never the case or has since changed isnt really here nor there, i'm just explaining where i'm coming from

from what i remember the azonto sound took off in late 2010/early 2011 when the skillions crew from Accra (which originally included E.L. Ball J and Krynkman aka Nshona) switched from hip hop to a more dancehall influenced sound, Sarkodie´s ´U go kill me´ being the jump off. I´m fairly sure these guys had all been clubbing in london around that time and had picked up some ideas.

this thread has really took off since i stopped posting in it!

Deej, if you're currently pitching stuff I'd be interested in reading an interview with Masterkraft on the question of origins, inspirations, goals etc. He's particularly interesting since he's doing stuff like this http://www.hulkshare.com/afritunez1/masterkraft-%E2%80%93-started-from-the-bottom along with more traditional afrobeats stuff. (cf. also his Oliver Twist remix.)
Obviously, he's trying to branch out a bit and his perspective might be interesting.

I can definitely and confidently say in doing research I have come to the conclusion that I much prefer a geographically focused approach to the sort of generalized "afrobeats" = genre thing and I'm much less familiar w the Ghanaian sound than the naija one so

Silva’s career began in London’s UK funky scene in the mid-2000s, MCing over heavy, percussive club grooves. After spending time in Ghana, he returned in 2011 and turned his attention to Afrobeats,

Various Ghanaians (born there or in UK) going back and forth

http://thump.vice.com/words/its-called-afrobeats-not-afrobeat-and-its-taking-over-london December 2013

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/jan/19/the-rise-of-afrobeats January 2012

I can definitely and confidently say in doing research I have come to the conclusion that I much prefer a geographically focused approach to the sort of generalized "afrobeats" = genre thing and I'm much less familiar w the Ghanaian sound than the naija one so

― rap steve gadd (D-40), Monday, 8 September 2014 01:51 Bookmark

it's excellent to focus geographically but i would have thought it better to do so with an awareness of what makes that particular geography distinct and the context it draws from and emerges in - you've not actually ungeneralised or broken down afrobeats at all is the thing, and you're provoking discourse with the generalised term still in mind, so it's just led to a weirdly myopic pov hence all the confusion itt. like i'm hardly surprised nigerian dudes you spoke to didnt know wtf funky was or downplayed its significance, the post-2011 rise of afrobeats was driven by azonto's emergence and most of the cultural trade came thru that angle. discussing afrobeats without ghana is nutty as fuck! (commendably so tbf but still)

i mean i'm not saying nigerian stuff hasn't had a part to play tho, far from it, and certainly there has been cross-pollination within africa in rhythmic terms, but imo the specific nigerian pop crossover story might have been tighter zoning in on the singular aptitude for afroPOP - 'pakurumo', 'dami duro', 'jasi', 'girlie o', 'dorobucci' - rather than also folding in and geo-crediting post-azonto afrobeats ('you garrit', 'phyno', d'adshas etc) ('phyno' is kinda actually a perfect blend of the two i guess). i know that seems pedantic and doesn't materially alter the thrust of what you've been saying, ie hey appreciate this healthy scene, but in polemical discursive terms i think it's fairly key

lol i'm still not rly compelled to check for this stuff on the regs these days btw idk why i'm doing my longest posts of the year here

this thread has really took off since i stopped posting in it!

― Benny B, Sunday, 7 September 2014 21:12 Bookmark

yeah i really wanna know why this is! (lol mainly what i meant by chattering classes comment above). i just thought there was a new blog or something

dancehall seems to go curiously unmentioned when people talk about afrobeats...again i don't know what the actual concrete connections are, if any, but the audience overlap and uh spiritual similarity seems pretty relevant

Ghana’s Fuse ODG and international dancehall champ Sean Paul launches Afrobeats Vs Dancehall competition driven by their collabo single ”Dangerous Love”. The contest is a dance video competition whereby participants upload their videos dancing to the song and popping their best Afrobeat and dancehall moves.

Silva’s career began in London’s UK funky scene in the mid-2000s, MCing over heavy, percussive club grooves. After spending time in Ghana, he returned in 2011 and turned his attention to Afrobeats,

Various Ghanaians (born there or in UK) going back and forth

http://thump.vice.com/words/its-called-afrobeats-not-afrobeat-and-its-taking-over-london December 2013

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/jan/19/the-rise-of-afrobeats January 2012

― curmudgeon, Sunday, September 7, 2014 10:23 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is exactly the kind of weird sentence i'm accusing of being myopic w/r/t afrobeats upthread. what if 'uk's funky scene' is already afrobeats ... in that case it was more like, 'after recording over afrobeats made by his fellow immigrants, he moved home and met people still living in ghana who made afrobeats and worked with them too.'

what if 'uk's funky scene' is already afrobeats Is that right?

Or is it: 'after recording over UK Funky tunes made by his fellow immigrants, he moved home and met people still living in ghana who made afrobeats and worked with them too.'

http://mefirighana.com/mefiri-ghana-meets/

Having the grime background we then progressed into the funky genre where we have produced tracks such as “if you are on this let me know” and “10 out of 10” which went crazy in the raves. In 2011 I decided to venture into the Afrobeats scene and being a Ghanaian I thought why not try it out. Linking up with Flava, Kwamz and A-star, we released the “Bo Wo Sem Ma Mi” track which received a very good response and it kind of just took off from there. The Afrobeats genre is definitely an area I am looking to do big things in.

Or is it: 'after recording over UK Funky tunes made by his fellow immigrants, he moved home and met people still living in ghana who made afrobeats and worked with them too.'

― curmudgeon, Monday, September 8, 2014 12:29 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you're not understanding the exercise at all

death of the author, benny b

anyway give me a sec to respond to RTC's post

it's excellent to focus geographically but i would have thought it better to do so with an awareness of what makes that particular geography distinct and the context it draws from and emerges in - you've not actually ungeneralised or broken down afrobeats at all is the thing, and you're provoking discourse with the generalised term still in mind, so it's just led to a weirdly myopic pov hence all the confusion itt. like i'm hardly surprised nigerian dudes you spoke to didnt know wtf funky was or downplayed its significance, the post-2011 rise of afrobeats was driven by azonto's emergence and most of the cultural trade came thru that angle. discussing afrobeats without ghana is nutty as fuck! (commendably so tbf but still)

i mean i'm not saying nigerian stuff hasn't had a part to play tho, far from it, and certainly there has been cross-pollination within africa in rhythmic terms, but imo the specific nigerian pop crossover story might have been tighter zoning in on the singular aptitude for afroPOP - 'pakurumo', 'dami duro', 'jasi', 'girlie o', 'dorobucci' - rather than also folding in and geo-crediting post-azonto afrobeats ('you garrit', 'phyno', d'adshas etc) ('phyno' is kinda actually a perfect blend of the two i guess). i know that seems pedantic and doesn't materially alter the thrust of what you've been saying, ie hey appreciate this healthy scene, but in polemical discursive terms i think it's fairly key

lol i'm still not rly compelled to check for this stuff on the regs these days btw idk why i'm doing my longest posts of the year here

― r|t|c, Monday, September 8, 2014 2:36 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was about afropop; i'm certianly not claiming that nigeria's sound is wholly nigerian, i think it's a pretty omnivorous animal taking in sounds from jamaica and the states and ghana and south africa and hoovering it up through its industry which, as far as I can tell, remains much more prominent and central (prob a combination of money x population) than ghana. Not to downplay Ghana's role. you're welcome to make more clear the distinction between afropop and "afrobeats" in orezi or d'adshas considering both those artists are from nigeria and popped off there. Nigeria's industry and wide variety of sounds as afropop make it sound to me like a triangulation & as such stronger than the sum of its parts.

as to why people are caring about this now vs. two years ago, isn't it just the amount of quality music coming out in aggregate over the past few years since the D'Banj record?

dancehall seems to go curiously unmentioned when people talk about afrobeats...again i don't know what the actual concrete connections are, if any, but the audience overlap and uh spiritual similarity seems pretty relevant

― lex pretend, Monday, September 8, 2014 11:27 AM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Some artists play with Jamaican history: Burnaboy's "Don Gorgon" swipes the costume of early '90s dancehall like Supercat, but bends it into a completely new shape. Patoranking, on the other hand—whose "Girlie O (Remix)" has been a Nigerian smash—is generally considered a dancehall artist. Nigerian Afropop artist 2Face had a hit in Jamaica with "African Queen" in 2006. And Jamaican artist Busy Signal has recorded a version of P-Square's "Personally" retitled "Professionally." For those not paying close attention, Nigeria's relationship with Jamaican music is pretty tangled, although the underlying pulse of South African house inside the former might be one way to differentiate the two genres. But it's not just about the beat: "If a Jamaican producer produces a beat for a Nigerian artist, and a Nigerian artist sings over that beat, you would think it was Nigerian music," says DJ 3K. "Same goes for if a Jamaican sings over a Nigerian beat...there are some similarities. But they are different."

I guess my hypothesis would be something like, its similarity to funky isn't a COINCIDENCE exactly but more of a parallel than an explicit product of 'influence' arrows going UK Funky -> afrobeats ... unless you're talking in a UK context in which case that makes more sense

I will stick with Benny's take and other stuff I have heard and read...

benny's take being that UK artists consider UK Funky a separate genre from afrobeats. got it

tbrr the reason im pushing against this isn't so much an investment in making fun of the uk as it is concern that this is turning into the 20-teens version of 'timbaland was influenced by drum n bass'

Whoa a lot to catch up on! wish I'd seen all this sooner and reluctant as I am to go through the last weeks discussion dragging up old points of contention there really is a lot to talk about here.

I'd feel quite confident in asserting that UK funky had no direct influence on afrobeats/pop and vice versa. I'm sure as I can be without speaking to every relevant producer active between 2007 and 2009, that there were no clear avenues of influence, connecting threads or collaborations occuring before funky house was already established fact.

Actually one thing does come to mind. P2J the guy that produced this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDwFEgcGPBg is of Nigeria descent (the song does feature Yoruba vocals fwiw). He now produces afrobeats primarily for UK based afrobeats artist Lola Rae, but again that's something that developed well after the high point of uk funky.
They actually did a remix of Legendary Congolese artist Awilo Logomba's 'Coupe Bibamba' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6KHE2ICqg, which I bring up because a song like Yemi Alade's 'Johnny' owes so much to it. Turn down the production values a bit and you have a early 00's Soukous track, so its no surprise that its been such a big hit in francophone Africa. She even incorporates elements of Soukous and Makossa dancing in the video and I'd imagine Awilo appreciates the parallels as well because they now have a collaboation in the works. http://loggtv.tv/2014/07/awilo-longomba-features-yemi-alade-on-new-single-photos/

Wasn't really building towards anything there but I guess the point is you can observe ways in which distinct and in some cases well defined musical traditions outside of Ghana and Nigeria have been influential on the current sound whether it be a zouglu track like Magic System's '1er Gaou', coupe decale like DJ Ramatoulaye's 'Aladji', A track makossa music, dancehall, reggae, soca, hip hop, r&b, soukous as discussed or even a track as seemingly inocuous as Wally Badarou's 'Hil Life'. The same can't really be done on any level for UK funky. Striking similarities between the two are a lot more than incidental but are hardly surprising when you consider in isolation the qualities that differentiate UK funky from grime and house. "Ancestral bloodline juju" raises an eyebrow but on some level isn't that far off the mark.

This is otm

its similarity to funky isn't a COINCIDENCE exactly but more of a parallel than an explicit product of 'influence' arrows going UK Funky -> afrobeats ... unless you're talking in a UK context

I feel a great deal of clarity on this when shuffling through tracks that were big in Nigeria and to a lesser extent Ghana (relative to what I know about Nigeria, its a blindspot. I'm actually more familiar with Francophone traditions than hip-life) in the 00's through to 08. Putting aside any outside influences, it's no surprise that the music sounds the way it does today when you consider where it was coming from and what it was building on.

Tony Tetuila - My Car, My Heart Go Jigi Jigi (2002) Omode meta (2004)
Lagbaja - Konko Below, Gra Gra, Suure Lere (2000), Skentele Skontolo (2005)
Plantashun Boiz - Ememma, Plantashun Boiz Anthem (2000), One and Only (2003)
Sound Sultan - Jagbajantis (2000), Mathematics (2004)
Trybesmen - Shake Body, Trybal Marks (2000) Oya (2002)
Maintain - Catch Cold (2001)
Styl Plus - Olufunmi, Call My Name (2003), Imagine Dat (2006)
P-Square - Bizzy Body (2003), No One Like You, Do Me, Ifunaya (2006)
2 Face - African Queen, Keep on Rockin, Ole, (2004), My Love, E Be Like Say, See Me So, True Love, 4 Instance (2006), Enter the Place, Flex feat. R. Kelly (2008)
Eedris Abdulkareem - Come Back Home (2002) Jaga Jaga (2004)
Faze - Faze Alone (2004) Letter to My Brother, Kolomental, Kpo Po Dipo (2007)
Casto - Toffee (2004)
D'banj - Tongolo, Socor (2005) Why Me (2006) Suddenly, Igwe, Gbono Feli Feli, Fall in Love, Maje, Kimon (2008)
Mo Hits - Pere, Close to You, Ten Ten, Booty Call, Move Your Body (2007)
Kofi Nti - Rakia (2005)
Eldee - Champion, I Go Yarn (2006) Big Boy, Bosi Gbangba (2008)
Olu Maintain - Yahooze (2006), Jedi Jedi (2007)
Naeto C - Kini Big Deal (2006)
Ofori Amponsah - Emmanuella (2005), Sardine (2007)
X Project - Lori Le (2007) [The group is actually from Sierra Leone but operated in Lagos mostly]
9ice - Little Money (2007), Gongo Aso (2008)
Shank - Julie (2008)
Wande Coal - Bumper 2 Bumper, You Bad, Kiss Your Hand (2008)
Timaya - Timaya, Ogologomma, Plantain Boy, Dem Mama (2007)
Asem - Pigaro (2008)
M.I - Anoti (2008)
Ikechukwu - Wind am Well (2008)
Bigiano - Shayo (2008)
Ay.com - Pass Me Ur Love (2008)
KC Presh - Ginjah Ur Swagger (2008)
J.Martins - Owey, Iva (2008)
Kelly Hansome - Maga Don Pay, Like Play (2008)

Most of these songs would be on youtube if anybody's curious. My music collection has been in limbo for a bit, so I've had to piece that together from memory but I can't deny, its actually been extremely fun. My sister and cousins helped me out and turned it into a lil throwback party.

The period before the explosion if you will, in 08 is extremely difficult to pin down and as such there's a tendency to look past it in favour of stylistic reference points that scan as concrete. In Ghana 'hiplife' carried over from the 90's and became a useful umbrella term for a variety of styles, on that end contention has only arisen as collaborations between Nigerian and Ghanain artists have become the norm. The closest thing to an equivalent term in Nigeria is of course afrobeat(s), which has of course been problematic for a variety of reasons.

For now I'm not sure its worth getting hung up on such things. Consensus can only really form around an agreeable centralised impetus or an organising force informed by historical analysis of the music and I can't imagine where that's supposed to come from. Until it materialises, depending on where you are and who you're talking, to the music may go by a different name.

dog latin, longneck, if you want high quality tracks your best bet is finding an afrobeats DJ and speaking in very kind and flattering tones to him after his set. If he's a charlatan he'll charge you a fair amount of money for tracks if you've buttered him up nicely he'll burn some disks/link you to a dropbox or w/e.

i'm not entirely satisfied deej is grasping my point, which was that imo all this recent conversation we've been having about afrobeats/pop and the uk would have been somewhat different had he specified that he actually had nigerian afrobeats/pop in mind throughout; tsrobodo's post now reinforces this

Original post starting all this said "Nigeria"!

yeah the mooted uk funky connection is much easier to see in relation to ghana rather than nigeria. i remember listening to radio interview with ball j in which he said ´lapaz toyota´was made specifically with UK in mind after hearing uk funky and garage on a trip to london. that was a huge tune and marked a complete change in style from the hip hop the accra crew was making before. the azonto sound was undoubtedly influential on naija too, it was massive! (though this is controversial - many ghanaians took offence to Chris Brown´s comments last year that wizkid had taught him azonto. Nigerians accused of copying azonto with the ´alingo´ dance craze etc etc)

wouldn´t wanna blow this up into a ´timbaland/dnb´ thing either but these little connections are interesting and wouldn´t seem relevant if you take ghana out of the afrobeats conversation. my ´position´ on whatever we were talking about (?) lies somewhere between matt dc´s ´cultural exchange´ and rtc´s ´bloodline juju´ thing fwiw

tsrobodo this is asking a lot but would you be willing to put a mix together on soundcloud/dropbox?
this is a field i'd like a little curatorial guidance and corner cutting to know more about.

dude there's mixes all over. never mind the comps recommended itt

yeah, i've dl'd several but one that's immediate and curated by someone in this thread would be preferable

I'm kinda computerless at the moment, hence music collection in limbo i.e. split between a number of hard drives so I'll have to get back to you on that in a few weeks when I can get my shit together, that aside short of dubbing a commentary over the tracks I'm not sure how any mix I'd make would help in terms of cutting corners. Is there a particular type of mix you're looking for?

yeah, i've dl'd several but one that's immediate and curated by someone in this thread would be preferable

― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 9 September 2014 19:59 Bookmark

ugh idg this attitude at all, just engage with the fucking world there is no corner cutting

i remember listening to radio interview with ball j in which he said ´lapaz toyota´was made specifically with UK in mind after hearing uk funky and garage on a trip to london. that was a huge tune and marked a complete change in style from the hip hop the accra crew was making before.

― Benny B, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 18:40 Bookmark

ha i did not know this!! ball j otm, 'lapaz toyota' remains the last tune in any genre that has totally jaw-drop eye-bulge blown my mind

(btw the funny thing about the timbaland ref is that ball j blatantly is a big fan as well)

Tsro: really just looking for what's new and notable: That's Afrobeats NOW!. that's the corner cutting i had in mind that rtc seems to find so odious. i do okay with engaging the world, trust me.

this is africa yoruba hits

btw, Mordy dropped me this which is a spotify list of much of Tsro's recommends and something i'll be working on over the week:
http://open.spotify.com/user/mordys/playlist/68y1SGkARvqVWsA1v1H1U1

http://emoji.fileformat.info/gemoji/corn.png

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/xwonls0jg2xqafvmolvd.jpg

i remember listening to radio interview with ball j in which he said ´lapaz toyota´was made specifically with UK in mind after hearing uk funky and garage on a trip to london. that was a huge tune and marked a complete change in style from the hip hop the accra crew was making before.

― Benny B, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 18:40 Bookmark

ha i did not know this!! ball j otm, 'lapaz toyota' remains the last tune in any genre that has totally jaw-drop eye-bulge blown my mind

(btw the funny thing about the timbaland ref is that ball j blatantly is a big fan as well)

― r|t|c, miércoles 10 de septiembre de 2014 1:59 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i mentioned this in the og afrobeats thread. don´t want to labour the point but this just occurred to me

K.I.G. - Head shoulders knees and toes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmHClIHgnRI

Nickmoah ft. Stay Jay - Head & shoulders (prod. by Ball J)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoSBeFkm7AI

K.I.G. family vs Fresh 2 Def (Silva family)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgOrzbZaIpQ#t=11

ahh that freestyle vid, vintage riddim getting me all misty eyed

Possible past influence is a point for the history books though. The important thing to me at least is that the current Nigerian scene (which is > any other scene right now, in 2014) bears little resemblance to any easily delineated "foreign" scene. There's traces of everything of course, but Nigerian music right now sounds fully formed, healthily absorbing whatever it might use and discarding what doesn't fit while continuing to evolve according to its own logic.

As for "quality" mp3s there are a couple of sites like this one: http://www.naijadjpool.com/music/ but the bitrates are generally low and I've come to terms with having to wait for better versions to show up in itunes or google play. Even some of those are pretty scandalous though, with muddy sound and blog site tags all over. I've made it my mission in life to report every single one of them in the hope that some day someone will take a hint lol.

Also, http://recordpool.nigeriandjs.com/ has a few albums uploaded. Worth checking I guess.

How's the Sean Tizzle album btw? I generally like him but Take It remains kinda meh to me.

lol @ Mordy's playlist based on Tsrobodo's selection of Nigerian songs being labeled: Afrobeatz