2008 Primaries Thread

i understand that your vote is literally one in 100 million but its still nice to look at that number on the end of it there and think that its a 7 instead of a 6 because of YOU

Every time I see post-election violence in Kenya or Ukraine or see democracy and human- and privacy right ebbing away in Russia, statements like

I'm coming to think civil disobedience (and judiciously applied violence) are looking like much more efficient mechanisms than voting.

just seem spoiled and myopic to me.

Que, what does it take for you to understand the diff btwn "Not Perfect" and LOATHSOME? At least three of us appear to fucking hate Rodham and McCain.

okay, fine. you hate hillary, but LOL we should get rid of the electoral college anyway but what are the chances of that happening.

if every non-swing state voter who doesnt bother with a dem because its throwing a vote away or whatever actually did go in for hill or obama it could put the popular vote higher than mccain even if he wins the electoral college, and that's important when it comes to the legitimacy of the presidency

I mean voting may be a 1 in 100 million thing but the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

dan what about the opposite argument: if you voted you shouldn't complain about bush winning. you played the game and lost.

That is a stupid argument and if you advance it, you should probably re-examine what you think America's principles are.

i think if you pax taxes you should get to vote, it's kinda one of the founding principles of america

There is a good amount of truth to this and I don't know exactly how much that complicates the illegal immigrant issue.

Also, unless your state completely disallows write-in candidates (I had no idea FL did this btw), you can always vote for SOMEONE. Maybe they won't win but you've at least registered your opinion.

i understand that your vote is literally one in 100 million but its still nice to look at that number on the end of it there and think that its a 7 instead of a 6 because of YOU

if its just a case of pride, why can't I be proud that I'm one of the lone votes for some write-in candidate, as opposed to becoming complicit in the eventual crimes of someone I find completely abhorrent...? why should I be compelled to vote for one of the two major candidates? fuck that

x-post

even if he wins the electoral college, and that's important when it comes to the legitimacy of the presidency

yeah really impacted Dubya's "legitimacy" didn'it (see 90% approval rating post-9/11 etc)

is it really worth californians writing in 'mickey mouse' to not be able to say to president romney that he lost the popular vote?

I mean voting may be a 1 in 100 million thing but the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

this is a more legitimate argument, but note that it doesn't necessitate me voting for either major party candidate

Results 1 - 10 of about 32,300 for bush "lost the popular vote". (0.28 seconds)

the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

otm

no one is talking about you shakey

you know what I've been "spoiled" by? 40 years of lousy government, with no end in sight.

well, finally: a more worthwhile conversation than will-Edwards-endorse- Obama.

I know someone said the word "nader" but can we all calm down?

wow this thread just because a thousand times more obnoxious than it normally is

i think if you pax taxes you should get to vote, it's kinda one of the founding principles of america

this gets the relationships backwards: rights to the franchise don't stem from one's status as a taxpayer

became^

if its just a case of pride, why can't I be proud that I'm one of the lone votes for some write-in candidate, as opposed to becoming complicit in the eventual crimes of someone I find completely abhorrent...?

i just think it's sad to do this, that's all. . .and how self-absorbed do you have to be to think you're "complicit" in the crimes of a president when, LOL, the president doesn't even know your name

going on ad nauseam about how everything in mass politics is so impure and disappointing and then dropping in a yearning for a little headknocking is straightup brownshirt talk

Shakey, here are your non-violent options. Remember: Good choices are made from good options.

big xpost to dan: i think it is an american principle that people's rights are natural and not derived from voting

nd how self-absorbed do you have to be to think you're "complicit" in the crimes of a president when, LOL, the president doesn't even know your name

wait so my vote DOESN'T matter? what are you on about.

xp: I bet he doesn't know the name of most of the folks who've been "dying for freedom" the last 6 years, either.

gff, I'll take necksize 15 1/2.

voting is not a mechanism for erecting a perfect social order for all time, it's a method for sorting out varying amounts of social power and possibly irrevocably pitched cultural and ideological conflicts without people killing each other

We're not changing anyone's mind here, folks.

going on ad nauseam about how everything in mass politics is so impure and disappointing and then dropping in a yearning for a little headknocking is straightup brownshirt talk

^^^ this

also, if Al Qaeda had managed to kill only the Clintons and Bushes, [SELF CENSORED FOR MY OWN PROTECTION]

hmm I don't really like any of those third-party options (McKinney? gtfo)

if Obama doesn't get the Dem nod maybe I'll just vote for Sun Ra

oh good someone said brownshirts. I'm going to the store. WORK IT OUT WHILE I'M GONE.

this country is built on headknocking and worse, wake up and smell the shit.

wow, I hate Democrats.

I don't really like any of those third-party options

THE PROHIBITION PARTY may be your salvation.

but... I love booze!

like Dubya, I couldn't have survived the last 8 years without it!

*chokes on pretzel*

I mean voting may be a 1 in 100 million thing but the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

I don't know if I completely buy this particular line of rhetoric. If the system doesn't work, it should be destabilized. If the form of that destabilization is the rise of another political party, that's great! If the form of that destabilization is rioting and civil war, that's not so good but maybe necessary...?

why should I be compelled to vote for one of the two major candidates?

You shouldn't be compelled to vote for anyone, let alone have your vote restricted to a Democrat or a Republican. If you choose not to vote for anyone at all, though, I don't want hear shit from you.

big xpost to dan: i think it is an american principle that people's rights are natural and not derived from voting

People have basic rights to life that should be guaranteed to them by the American government because they are citizens of the United States. The Bill of Rights didn't apply to slaves, dude.

Morbs, the history of almost any country is a catalog of crimes, blunders, and general human style twatwafflery, interspersed by moments when people actually get something positive done, Lord knows how. I agree about the 40 years of lousy government, but one thing I can say to the right-wing jackasses is, "If you dare fucking question my patriotismm or my committment to this republican experiment in democracy, I won't wave some flag in your face, I will simply say that I voted in every single election since my majority for which I was eligible, even some where I wasn't even in country."

but... I love booze!

changeyourevilways.jpeg

Whereas I would say, "Fuck off, right-wing jackass."

Srsly, why waste energy proving yourself to a jackass?

If the system doesn't work, it should be destabilized. ...If the form of that destabilization is rioting and civil war, that's not so good but maybe necessary...?

Join me on the barricades, Danno!

twatwafflery

nice word!

yeah really impacted Dubya's "legitimacy" didn'it (see 90% approval rating post-9/11 etc)

Well, actually.. Kerry might've contested all the irregularities and shady stuff happening in Ohio 2004, that Bush won the popular vote was one factor that had an effect on not challenging all that and demanding recounts. (Other factors I don't know.. Kerry being Kerry..)

Join me on the barricades, Danno!

Yeah so not ready to go there yet (but I recognize that, as a line of rhetoric, your viewpoint deserves airing)

The Bill of Rights didn't apply to slaves, dude.

Awesome justification, helps the people that picked your cilantro sleep at night I'm sure.

Srsly, why waste energy proving yourself to a jackass?

Committment to democratic dialogue.

Sorry, I just don't see why not giving my vote to one of two presidential nominees, after having debated their respective demerits for years, means I'm not participating in this great engine of liberty, especially when I can't use a write-in option; besides, by voting in my local race I feel enfranchised.

gore wouldn't have won the popular vote, which was of no official importance but plenty of rhetorical/cultural importance

In what way? Democrats repeated it ad nauseam en route to losing across the board in 2002 and 2004. No one cared. It didn't sway anyone. Didn't weaken Bush or the Republicans in the least.

what's better – glowing with civic responsibility like the thousands of Cuban-born citizens in Miami-Dade County who call the talk radios and plead, "Please tell me who to vote for"?

Awesome justification, helps the people that picked your cilantro sleep at night I'm sure.

lolololololololololololololololol

The one thing that keeps me voting in presidential elections is the Supreme Court pick.

i'm not really interested in this 'argument', i'm gonna keep morphin shit for now

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/allocryptic/barryclincain.jpg

barry mcclinton would like to show you his stimulus package