2008 Primaries Thread

now do one with the omfgoggles dog and me

I'm coming to think civil disobedience (and judiciously applied violence) are looking like much more efficient mechanisms than voting.

CIA to immediately begin surveilling Dr Morbius, plz.

I plan to vote, as always, in my local race, but to say that I should STFU for not voting for one of two awful nominees is purism of a kind I don't even have.

but, as Ned said, it's way too early.

even if you live in a solid red/blue district or state your vote still counts for the total - if enough ppl in solid blue states had opted to go for nader or not vote in 00 gore wouldn't have won the popular vote, which was of no official importance but plenty of rhetorical/cultural importance

This man has a strange worldview. The Surge has "vastly improved our situation globally", but Gitmo and torture presumably have little bearing on our global situation at present?!

-- Aimless, Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:06 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

did you even finish reading his post? or read him at all?

i mean, maybe this is corny and unrealistic, but look at the final count for 2004 - kerry lost but he got 59,028,111 and if you voted for him the 1 on the end of that big-ass number is YOURS

me and Alfred are on the same page here

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see i don't think that's corny. but i do think that not voting for a president--at all--because you don't like the candidates, think they are awful, etc. make you sound like a whiny five year old. you're never going to have a "perfect" candidate

and yes i am with dan, don't bitch if you didn't vote

I'll risk sounding whiny, thanks.

i mean, maybe this is corny and unrealistic, but look at the final count for 2004 - kerry lost but he got 59,028,111 and if you voted for him the 1 on the end of that big-ass number is YOURS

this DOES NOT MATTER unless you live in a swing-state. my vote is statistically insignificant, and thanks to the "winner-take-all" electoral college model, my vote has zero impact on the GE because my district is gonna throw its delegates to the Dem nominee by a huge margin, as it has for the last, oh I dunno, probably 50+ years.

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I pay taxes and vote in elections where my vote is counted so I'll bitch all I want, thx

Que, what does it take for you to understand the diff btwn "Not Perfect" and LOATHSOME? At least three of us appear to fucking hate Rodham and McCain.

as for judiciously applied violence, uh good luck with that

Lexington and Concord, baby. (Harpers Ferry too)

gore wouldn't have won the popular vote, which was of no official importance but plenty of rhetorical/cultural importance

lololol. That fact will be as obscure as Tilden-Hayes in 40 years.

isn't Henrik Hertzberg been quietly advocating district reform?

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i understand that your vote is literally one in 100 million but its still nice to look at that number on the end of it there and think that its a 7 instead of a 6 because of YOU

Every time I see post-election violence in Kenya or Ukraine or see democracy and human- and privacy right ebbing away in Russia, statements like

I'm coming to think civil disobedience (and judiciously applied violence) are looking like much more efficient mechanisms than voting.

just seem spoiled and myopic to me.

Que, what does it take for you to understand the diff btwn "Not Perfect" and LOATHSOME? At least three of us appear to fucking hate Rodham and McCain.

okay, fine. you hate hillary, but LOL we should get rid of the electoral college anyway but what are the chances of that happening.

if every non-swing state voter who doesnt bother with a dem because its throwing a vote away or whatever actually did go in for hill or obama it could put the popular vote higher than mccain even if he wins the electoral college, and that's important when it comes to the legitimacy of the presidency

I mean voting may be a 1 in 100 million thing but the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

dan what about the opposite argument: if you voted you shouldn't complain about bush winning. you played the game and lost.

That is a stupid argument and if you advance it, you should probably re-examine what you think America's principles are.

i think if you pax taxes you should get to vote, it's kinda one of the founding principles of america

There is a good amount of truth to this and I don't know exactly how much that complicates the illegal immigrant issue.

Also, unless your state completely disallows write-in candidates (I had no idea FL did this btw), you can always vote for SOMEONE. Maybe they won't win but you've at least registered your opinion.

i understand that your vote is literally one in 100 million but its still nice to look at that number on the end of it there and think that its a 7 instead of a 6 because of YOU

if its just a case of pride, why can't I be proud that I'm one of the lone votes for some write-in candidate, as opposed to becoming complicit in the eventual crimes of someone I find completely abhorrent...? why should I be compelled to vote for one of the two major candidates? fuck that

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even if he wins the electoral college, and that's important when it comes to the legitimacy of the presidency

yeah really impacted Dubya's "legitimacy" didn'it (see 90% approval rating post-9/11 etc)

is it really worth californians writing in 'mickey mouse' to not be able to say to president romney that he lost the popular vote?

I mean voting may be a 1 in 100 million thing but the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

this is a more legitimate argument, but note that it doesn't necessitate me voting for either major party candidate

Results 1 - 10 of about 32,300 for bush "lost the popular vote". (0.28 seconds)

the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

otm

no one is talking about you shakey

you know what I've been "spoiled" by? 40 years of lousy government, with no end in sight.

well, finally: a more worthwhile conversation than will-Edwards-endorse- Obama.

I know someone said the word "nader" but can we all calm down?

wow this thread just because a thousand times more obnoxious than it normally is

i think if you pax taxes you should get to vote, it's kinda one of the founding principles of america

this gets the relationships backwards: rights to the franchise don't stem from one's status as a taxpayer

became^

if its just a case of pride, why can't I be proud that I'm one of the lone votes for some write-in candidate, as opposed to becoming complicit in the eventual crimes of someone I find completely abhorrent...?

i just think it's sad to do this, that's all. . .and how self-absorbed do you have to be to think you're "complicit" in the crimes of a president when, LOL, the president doesn't even know your name

going on ad nauseam about how everything in mass politics is so impure and disappointing and then dropping in a yearning for a little headknocking is straightup brownshirt talk

Shakey, here are your non-violent options. Remember: Good choices are made from good options.

big xpost to dan: i think it is an american principle that people's rights are natural and not derived from voting

nd how self-absorbed do you have to be to think you're "complicit" in the crimes of a president when, LOL, the president doesn't even know your name

wait so my vote DOESN'T matter? what are you on about.

xp: I bet he doesn't know the name of most of the folks who've been "dying for freedom" the last 6 years, either.

gff, I'll take necksize 15 1/2.

voting is not a mechanism for erecting a perfect social order for all time, it's a method for sorting out varying amounts of social power and possibly irrevocably pitched cultural and ideological conflicts without people killing each other

We're not changing anyone's mind here, folks.

going on ad nauseam about how everything in mass politics is so impure and disappointing and then dropping in a yearning for a little headknocking is straightup brownshirt talk

^^^ this

also, if Al Qaeda had managed to kill only the Clintons and Bushes, [SELF CENSORED FOR MY OWN PROTECTION]

hmm I don't really like any of those third-party options (McKinney? gtfo)

if Obama doesn't get the Dem nod maybe I'll just vote for Sun Ra

oh good someone said brownshirts. I'm going to the store. WORK IT OUT WHILE I'M GONE.

this country is built on headknocking and worse, wake up and smell the shit.

wow, I hate Democrats.

I don't really like any of those third-party options

THE PROHIBITION PARTY may be your salvation.

but... I love booze!

like Dubya, I couldn't have survived the last 8 years without it!

*chokes on pretzel*

I mean voting may be a 1 in 100 million thing but the real value of voting isn't winning today, it's in keeping the institution of a stable democracy alive over time.

I don't know if I completely buy this particular line of rhetoric. If the system doesn't work, it should be destabilized. If the form of that destabilization is the rise of another political party, that's great! If the form of that destabilization is rioting and civil war, that's not so good but maybe necessary...?

why should I be compelled to vote for one of the two major candidates?

You shouldn't be compelled to vote for anyone, let alone have your vote restricted to a Democrat or a Republican. If you choose not to vote for anyone at all, though, I don't want hear shit from you.

big xpost to dan: i think it is an american principle that people's rights are natural and not derived from voting

People have basic rights to life that should be guaranteed to them by the American government because they are citizens of the United States. The Bill of Rights didn't apply to slaves, dude.