Women in Rock: Patti Smith vs Joan Jett

DF's badgirl to be unleashed

I'm amused that you guys didn't object to Billy "Cheekbones" Crudup playing pudgy J Edgar Hoover.

? when did that happen?

I'd love Billy Crudup to play my husband.

http://www.kennethackerman.com/images/hoovercover.jpg

yeah how dare music fans on a music msg board thread about a musician object to casting decisions in a biopic about said musician but remain completely silent on the topic of every other questionable casting decision in every other upcoming feature film.

except some people on this thread are on every horseshit Michael Mann thread.

whatever happened to Frodo as Iggy?

does somebody wanna bear out the comparison for us dumbfucks who don't see any similarities between these two other than "they're both women who came up at roughly the same time" and maybe "it'll really BLOW THE CANON'S MIND if I go for JJ"

most posters on this message board have brought themselves to orgasm thinking about one, or both, of these artists

would be my guess at the comparison

If there was a list of seventies female rock band leaders that were associated with the punk movement, who else would be on it?

Helen Wheels?

penelope houston

J0hn, it was started by a future 51er

does somebody wanna bear out the comparison for us dumbfucks who don't see any similarities between these two other than "they're both women who came up at roughly the same time"

This position assumes that there is no significance to the fact that women comprise a minority voice in rock, particularly in the 70s. If you don't think that's significant, any other complaints about any underlying sexism in the comparison is kinda uh waht. This seems pretty obvious to me. That they are both women who rose to prominence around the same time in what was a predominately sexist environment not prone to giving women much creative space is significant. If you want similarities between their specific bodies of work I don't think those are very hard to draw either - both recontextualized traditionally male rock personas and material (ie, Gloria vs. I Love Rock n Roll), both played up androgyny (Patti in a shirt and tie vs. Joan Jett's lesbianism and lolz cover of Replacements' "Androgynous"), both were interested in hard rock sounds, etc.

iow stfu

and yeah as mentioned both are punk icons (Patti for the artier punks and CBGBs folks, Joan Jett for the riot grrls)

seriously the "omg are you just pointing out that they're WOMEN?!" complaint is so weird. do you not think gender is significant? that gender doesn't inform a body of work or play a critical role in how artists present themselves or how they are perceived, received, marketed, whatever?

Patti is incredible, easy poll from where I sit.

Joan Jett EVERY. DAMN. TIME.

"it'll really BLOW THE CANON'S MIND if I go for JJ"

Does somebody wanna provide evidence that anybody prefers Joan for this reason for us dumbfucks who just think she's made way more good records?

any two members of an underrepresented population make for good comparisons by virue of their underrepresentation, shakey mo? iow NO U

most posters on this message board have brought themselves to orgasm thinking about one, or both, of these artists

yeah, sure, all the time

Does somebody wanna provide evidence that anybody prefers Joan for this reason for us dumbfucks who just think she's made way more good records?\\

sure

the only thing that has ever mattered to me about Patti Smith is her performance of "Gloria" on the first season of SNL. Beyond that, bleh.

CHALLENGING OPINIONS

any two members of an underrepresented population make for good comparisons by virue of their underrepresentation

sure, why not? You ask what they have in common. Well, they both belong an underrepresented population (which leads to questions about why this population is underrepresented, and how/whether that informs the artists' work, etc.) Why is this not legitimate.

http://www.lvhrd.org/wp-content/images/575x350/20080219_015704.jpg

Hm. Maybe if I couldn't see her ribs quite so much.

xposts

after decades of punk and riot grrls it's easy to overlook how important she was at the time

surely there's more Joan Jett in riot grrl than there is Patti Smith...? Patti was SO obsessed with famous men, for one thing.

the phrase to stress here is "at the time", i.e. the 70s. patti smith demanded a level of respect that the runaways didn't; they couldn't escape their novelty act ghetto. smith knocked over a bunch of dominoes that knocked into other dominoes that ultimately knocked into the riot grrls. so important? yeah. tho I agree that ultimately the campy/trashy fare that the runaways and joan jett traded in proved more important aesthetically to riot grrls than smith's work.

and you make a fair point about janis, but she was a hippie who fit into a tradition of bluesy barnburners, whereas patti was an unprecedented, crotch-grabbing, spitting ball of fire.

lol @ rest of this thread

Just defend this poll for whatever reason, I made a poll of Ronnie James Dio and Iggy Pop one time just because they were both short and old.

lol at darnielle's routine save-a-ho-ing.

there have been more slender reasons to compare artists than 'they were both women in a predominantly male genre who came up at a similar time'. indeed, the poll is modelled on two WIR who didn't even come up at the same time, p j harvey and patti smith; and iirc darnielle took part without questioning why they two should be compared.

anyway there is nothing challopy about preferring the vastly superior joan jett.

I am serious about that SNL performance tho! I remember seeing that in high school on some re-run and being really struck by it/excited/amazed. It is great. Then I bought Horses and discovered that Gloria is actually the best song on there (and that several of the other songs on there are pretty goddamn annoying). Heard "Because the Night", didn't like it. Heard "People Have the Power", didn't like it. Heard "Radio Ethiopia", didn't like it.

now, Joan Jett I have been familiar with for as long as I have been listening to the radio. The Runaways material is great. Joan Jett's early Blackhearts stuff is great. The Evil Stig album is great. I listen to all these with more regularity than I have ever listened to Patti Smith.

so no I am not trying to be challopsy

tbh I'd probably be tilting towards jett if I hadn't seen smith live in the late 90s. I was not a huge fan going in but that show was a religious experience.

sure, why not? You ask what they have in common. Well, they both belong an underrepresented population (which leads to questions about why this population is underrepresented, and how/whether that informs the artists' work, etc.) Why is this not legitimate.

can't deny that the argument's persuasive, though it also seems reductive - you can see how it's a little bogus for the outside-looking dominant-quality onlooker to say "these compare because they are outside the framework"? why not lora logic, poly styrene, lene lovich, debbie harry (much more interesting comparison to jj imo), alice bag, deborah iyall - or do they all seem like just as good a point of comparison?

xpost shakey mo you can't tell me you don't like radio ethiopia c'mon man that is a solid record.

dunno I haven't listened to it in 20 years haha

"pissing in the river" cannot be fucked with

why not lora logic, poly styrene, lene lovich, debbie harry (much more interesting comparison to jj imo), alice bag, deborah iyall

I'm not even familiar with half these people - Debbie's the highest profile and the only one I'd consider in the same league as Joan/Patti in terms of iconic status. Where's Suzi Quatro in yr list haha (I'd take her over all of these, personally, with possible exception of Debbie)

harvey and smith are a pretty legit comparison imo considering how many THE NEW PATTI SMITH articles ran in re: harvey.

btw I'm throwing a 10-year birthday party for the phrase "save-a-ho," everybody who enjoys using this wonderfully aging phrase c'mon out, bring yr geritol

xpost haha I threw suzi quatro out because I didn't want to look like I was just throwing everybody in

why not lora logic, poly styrene, lene lovich, debbie harry (much more interesting comparison to jj imo), alice bag, deborah iyall

well none of these folks were standing on a stage in 1975

wait I guess harry was

actually I'd like to see joan jett vs. chrissie hynde, that's a much fairer fight to me

notice that I did not say catfight

NO BUT YOU MEANT IT

MROWR

I saw Patti Smith several years ago right after I had lost my job. Sitting alone at the bar not wanting to meet anybody because they might ask me what I did for a living. It was an emotional show.

I didn't get to see Joan Jett when I was a kid and she played AstroWorld because I was there with my church group and they made us leave before her concert started. I road on the big round water rapids ride with her and her band though. Or maybe it was her biggest fans pretending to be her, I'll never know for sure.

more important, is both of these artists matter to my life from their records. "Pissing in a River" "I Got No Answers"

a++ trolling jd it is a rare swoop to catch eddy, shakey & banriquit all @ once

how about joan jett vs. lou reed

patti smith vs. tom verlaine

a++ trolling jd it is a rare swoop to catch eddy, shakey & banriquit all @ once

I wish I were trolling, I am just the asshole I seem to be :(

my trolling is the realest, others have to plot their shit out but I just go jedi-style

patty smyth vs.the jets

Musicpix: In the early 80’s, you rode the wave of the pioneering Patti Smith, Blondie, and obviously your own success with The Runaways. Smith and Harry had the same challenges you had as far as being women in rock. I know that you had an alliance with Blondie, but what about Patti Smith or other women who were also trying to break that sexual barrier…was it a ‘ladies bathroom topic’ so to speak?

Joan: No. I probably met Patti Smith once early on. There wasn’t any kind of discussion going on. I had met Chrissie (Hynde/The Pretenders) a few times too but we didn’t sit down and formulate an attack plan or discuss music in women or any of that stuff. Certainly, the way I felt was, we’re just girls who play rock and roll. We were trying to not make a big deal of that. We knew we where that and you can’t get away from that but we didn’t want to push that. Yeah, we’re girls playing guitars and we’re musicians. That was the attack that those women were taking too in that they were artists but they were women first.

patti smith vs. patty smyth vs. a grizzly bear

Scandal vs Quarterflash

My love of Patti Smith is definitely not based on the nuanced sophistication of her poetic vision...

Bimbs that goes without saying but the title seemed appropriate.

Hahaha. :)

Hongroe like the wolf! Oh my god, Noodle, your screen names never fail to make me LOL. I really think we should all take you as an example for screen names.

To a kid looking up to me, life ain't nothing but zings and no money.

I loved the Roadrunner cover, wow, thanks ILM.

who the fuck would've voted for Patti Smith?!?

me! you got a problem with that?

"do you want to touch me (oh yeah)" is my favourite song ever

how to vote? For Joan?

Poll's over. Joan won.

Now that I've seen the Patti Smith doc on PBS where she and Flea talk about pee, I want to change my vote.

Sorry to be late to the party, but I think Patti is gorgeous. I love the Mapplethorpe photos, and the story of their friendship. I would love to have been there when all that was happening! And BTW Kenan, I LOVE that I can see her ribs :)

http://www.sohoblues.com/SoHoBluesBWPortraits/previewpages/preview10.jpg

Now that I've seen the Patti Smith doc on PBS where she and Flea talk about pee, I want to change my vote.

― Zachary Taylor

lol