Let Us Anticipate Interpol - El Pintor 9/9/2014

Speaking of my ethereal baebes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9bLpflDCY

music sounds like MBV meets Burning Airlines

OK, I really have been hesitating about asking this question, but I'm in my third day now of having this image stuck in my head. And I do realise that ILX is less than 1/100 interested in this than if, say, Amanda Palmer or Lily Allen had done this - which is kinda the point.

But you know when you're caught between "I don't want to give the obvious attention whore any of the attention he is so clearly craving here" versus "come on, is not one even going to *acknowledge* the existence of this?" Like, I guess the entire fandom mostly just likes to pretend that it ~totally didn't happen~ (or maybe I missed any debate around this?) and if they do, it's like "LOL, a man in a dress" rather than "um, why is he in blackface?"

And there awareness that he's deliberately doing it to be shocking or provocative, like, duh, dumb goths who play with fascist imagery because they're trying to get a rise, and refusing to give them them the rise they are looking for. I mean, I'm mostly interested in the total lack of any kind of reaction of any kind to this. Maybe it's just a question of scale. (Though it's hard not to see a double standard, because I'd argue that this guy is way more famous than e.g. CocoRosie?) I acknowledge it's not very high on the endless list of racist things to get discussed when kids are gunned down in the street (but you could make the same argument about Taylor Swift twerking). But I didn't see this talked about or mentioned or acknowledged "hey this was kinda gross" anywhere. I mean, I'm wary of accusations of "looking for things to get offended about" by bringing up an admittedly unwatchably terrible 2-year-old art film with 3000 views you YouTube. (I mean, I'm bringing it up now because I have literally never seen it before, let alone seen it problematised.) But I'm just kinda perplexed about who and what seems to tip off pop culture outrage and a billion ILX threads and thinkpieces (without discounting the awfulness of things that do garner outrage) and what seems to get a total free pass.

I guess that's the question, not "is this bad?" but "why does this get a free pass?"*

http://31.media.tumblr.com/4cbeceb58816141a4f91b4ebb46c0936/tumblr_mlowh68Sny1r6cs0zo1_500.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTWwZT96gZY

*I guess the answer could easily be, "no one gives a shit about Interpol any more, even to hate on them." That's a valid but unsatisfying answer, I guess.

Ugh, I didn't mean that video to embed, sorry, I didn't realise the S thing had been fixed.

Can you imagine what ILM's reaction would be if, e.g. Amanda Palmer did this?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvj_s6NCAAAM6pf.jpg

(Some people have told me they can't see the video or the GIF)

((This was originally in reply to another ILX poster contacting me privately to say it wasn't really fair to compare Interpol to Taylor/Miley in terms of fame/exposure. But I think Interpol were actually bigger than Dresden Dolls, and the level of indie fame/notoriety between Carlos D and Amanda Palmer is fairly analogous.))

is that someone in blackface? I can't even tell.

Mr Dengler's natural skintone, when he's not portraying a "baddie" in a film is normally more like:

http://blogs.westword.com/backbeat/Carlos-D-interpol-58666_876_584.jpg

(I really had to struggle to find a photo of him *not* in that nazi-esque uniform which I thought might be, well, prejudicial, but it actually makes me rethink the whole "oh, it's just a fashion thing" excuse when a guy who spent a great deal of time walking around in jackboots turns up in blackface.)

I don't want to get bogged down in accusations of "is this act racist or not?" (sure looks like it!) but what I am curious about is what it is that triggers the scrutiny of a celebrity's behaviour, what triggers ILX opprobrium. And not just ILM, but generally, in what cases is "Indie-rock celebrity turns up in blackface" a media event and in what cases is it "nobody even mentions the blackface"?

Especially the dude isn't actually even in the band for the album this thread is about, maybe I should have taken this to a different thread. But I felt like taking a picture of an indie-rocker in blackface to the rolling "Is This Racist?" thread would be, I dunno. Provocative in the wrong way.

He is not in "blackface." He is in "body paint." There is a difference. Blackface is not just painting your skin in a dark color. It's the lips, the eye-rolling, it's a whole thing. He looks more like an alien from a very low budget sci-fi show/movie to me than anything else.

You've watched the film, then? Because I tried to pick a frame that highlighted the lips, the eye-rolling, the exaggerated gestures (did I mention the Vogueing at one point?) This is not just a guy painted a funny colour. This is a guy performing race in a very stereotypical way.

i have no problem with anyone saying 'fuck you carlos d' over this video. i also have no problem with the world continuing to ignore carlos d altogether.

if a former celebrity makes a questionable video in an attempt for attention, and it's ignored entirely, i think the punishment fits the crime.

and i'm being nice by using the word "celebrity"

I mean, I do not expect anyone to sit through a 20-minute cybergoth art flick to prove my point. But this is not "a guy painted brown to look like an alien." This is a guy doing blackface.

I dunno. "Continuing to ignore Carlos D" is definitely an option. But why does ILM never take that approach with Amanda Palmer?

You've watched the film, then?

Ha, nope; life's too short.

(I've heard the new Interpol album, though. It's very good.)

because she has a large fanbase, a presence in the media. judging by the numbers and comments on that youtube, carlos does not.

when carlos d does a ted talk, i'm sure ilx will take note

I mean, I did think, several times, while watching it "this is trolling, this is a fading celebrity trying to get attention" but, like, even in the *fanbase*, who still pay attention to this dude and his (fnar) antics, like, not one person problematised or even mentioned the blackface? I found it weird.

(I'm glad the new Interpol album is very good; I've only heard about half of it at this point.)

I mean, this is going to turn into a tautology soon enough.

"People pay attention to her, because people pay attention to her."
"People do not pay attention to him, because..."

Frankly, I take the lack of outcry as a hopeful sign for society. Maybe we collectively don't have to "problematise" every fucking thing on Earth. Maybe we can ignore worthless bullshit. Like, as a life strategy.

It doesn't feel like that, horse. It feels like "a woman breaths in a room: WE MUST PROBLEMATISE IT" as opposed to a guy does an overtly terrible thing "Oh, I'm sure he's just pretending to be an alien or some other perfectly reasonable excuse, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and just ignore it."

like, if you genuinely think an active singer/songwriter who gets large amounts of money through dubious kickstarters selling her toenails and does ted talks at bono's behest and a former indie rock bassist who makes a tasteless artfilm to a total of 5,000 youtube views over 2 years are THE SAME THING and that there's something to ilx ignoring the latter (and again, this video is two years old) and commenting amusedly on the former, i don't know what to tell you

if carlos d sang "makin' whoopie" with neil gaiman to a cheering crowd, i'm sure we'd lol

it's frankly an insult to the relative effort amanda palmer puts into trolling and getting attention to suggest that sexism is the only reason she gets more attention then a far less notable figure doing a far less notable thing

I dunno; I think that ILX's hate-crush obsession with Amanda Palmer is weird and kinda unhealthy and her importance is exaggerated because ILX is obsessed with hating her.

I mean, I don't know how many records Dresden Dolls sold as opposed to Interpol (1.4 million, the latter, I think? Has Palmer sold that many?) but I think they occupy pretty similar niche habitats in terms of, well, my Mum hasn't heard of either of them.

But, I mean, I pretty much think of Amanda Palmer as a nobody that ILX is just weirdly and unduly obsessed with.

I dunno; I think that ILX's hate-crush obsession with Amanda Palmer is weird and kinda unhealthy and her importance is exaggerated because ILX is obsessed with hating her.

this is a fair statement, however the fact that ilx has joined the rest of the world in not paying attention to a short artfilm from a guy best known for a haircut and having herpes ten years ago doesn't confirm the sentiment's validity.

like yeah, ilx and the world probably care too much about courtney love, but if a hypothetical bassist from a b-level seattle band yells racist shit about obama in an unpromoted youtube and no one notices, it'd be kind of weird to claim this is revelatory evidence of anything

That's kinda my point. If Carlos D were a woman known for having haircuts and wearing racist uniforms and carrying/transmitting a sexually transmitted disease, there would be an ILX thread 5 times as long as the Amanda Palmer one, probably called something like "This just in: Carlotta D: Still Crazy" or "Carlotta D: Cash Cow or Total Bitch?" or something along those lines.

Female artists get a ton more scrutiny, and a ton more shit for their antics. Dudes get a free pass to get their shit ignored.

My point, you have just made it.

Now I'm going back to anticipating a new, herpes-free, nazi-free Interpol album. Yay.

i'm not denying that female artists get a ton more scrutiny. i simply don't think carlos d and amanda palmer are equitable in stature or activity.

we're talking about a successful singer/songwriter and a former bassist

Well, if you don't want to accept Amanda Palmer, then you know who's a really, really, seriously obscure female indie artist who sold absolute jack shit compared to Interpol, and still got like five threads dedicated to calling out their questionable behaviour?

CocoRosie member goes to "Kill Whitey" Ironic dance parties and gets called out by brainwashed.com as racist

"Kill Whitey", Cocorosie, and borrowing the Audi.

Well! what *are* we to make of CocoRosie?

Why does Europe love CocoRosie so much?

again, i am with you that women get a ton more scrutiny. however, two of those are two posts long, only one updated since 2008 despite the fact that the group charted in europe in 2013 (a year after the ex-bassist of interpol made this video). cocorosie was an active group doing questionable shit while making music people listened to. carlos d made a shitty video years after leaving a band he didn't even sing in.

that said, if you start a thread saying "carlos d is a racist" today i guarantee you'll get more than two posts.

"women get lots of scrutiny and shit for stuff men totally get a pass on" - i'm with you

"and the proof is that nobody wants to talk about carlos d as much as i do" - hold up

I mean, I have never even heard a note of that band's music. I don't think I ever saw a picture of them in a music paper or could name one of their tunes. But I sure remember that ILM had 5 threads about how racist they were.

But on the other hand, you've got arguably the most prominent American indie-rock band of the 00s (or certainly the most critically acclaimed, or "seminal" (LOL) or whatever), and their front man / most prominent / recognisable member (I mean, let's stop with this "just the bassist" shit. He was the one that everyone photographed and interviewed and treated as the star) goes and makes a blackface video and there's... *tumbleweed*

And you don't think there's any difference in the way that the public sphere (including ILM) scrutinises and problematises female versus male behaviour? really?

p.s. I don't want to talk about Carlos D. It's Kessler I always want to talk about, keep your indie-rock heartthrobs straight. I just find it *weird* that in two years, I never heard so much of a whisper about Carlos D and his blackface, while I read a ton more scrutiny of women at much lesser levels of celebrity.

And you don't think there's any difference in the way that the public sphere (including ILM) scrutinises and problematises female versus male behaviour? really?

please acknowledge what i've written - "women get lots of scrutiny and shit for stuff men totally get a pass on" - i'm with you

if you think carlos d in 2014 (or shit, 2012) is bigger than cocorosie (apparently still a charting act in europe even though i haven't heard about them in years) and amanda palmer (who had a top 10 album with her name and face on the cover in 2012), i would say you do want to talk about carlos d

i am not debating the relative scrutiny of women vs men, i debating the stature and celebrity of carlos d in the current decade

i am trying to break it to you that carlos d has not been the most prominent member of interpol for many a year

Well, I want to talk about the fact that a (now former) member of a band I thought I liked made a blackface video in 2012 and no one, not even in the *fandom* seemed like it was worth mentioning. I mean, yeah. That did give me pause. I've spent three days, basically googling to find any mention of it at all, and asking around, and going "uuuhhh, why did none of you ever see fit to mention the blackface? Is there a collective amnesia here, or was the film just so horrific you've all blocked it from your minds? (despite the fact you're posting GIFs and laughing about how he's wearing a sequinned ballgown, but still not mentioning the blackface." I mean, yeah. I kinda felt a bit like I was standing there with my mouth open, gawping, saying "am I the only person that can see this?"

But in terms of "who's bigger" Interpol or Amanda Palmer or .... I mean, honestly I had never fucking heard of them except this Cocorosie? I suppose it depends what circles you move in. If you asked me to make a chart of who's more famous, Interpol or Amanda Palmer, I would put them at about the same level. Yes.

Just so long as we are in agreement on "women get lots of scrutiny and shit for stuff men totally get a pass on" - i'm with you which is the main thrust of my argument.

i am trying to break it to you that carlos d has not been the most prominent member of interpol for many a year

You probably need to break this to Tumblr and their online fanbase, too, in that case. LOL.

i mean, take heart that this nazi in blackface has been totally ignored (outside of this tumblr cult that can't get his artfilm more than 5,000 views over 2 years), despite being such an apparent superstar in your eyes. that's a good thing!

Maybe I should make a poll for "who was more famous: Interpol or Amanda Palmer?" and then ILX would completely fucking explode.

I mean, if the only thing we disagree on is that I think Carlos D is more famous than Amanda Palmer and you think Amanda Palmer is more famous than Carlos D, then really we can go home now because this is probably a transAtlantic thing where Interpol are in the NME every fucking week and Amanda who is not.

i think it'd be awful if an ex-bassist could get attention on the level of a top 10 solo artist who does ted talks just by making a shitty artfilm

you know he's not in the band right? for four years?

It's a really terrible film. Like, it is now actually literally the worst film I have ever watched in my life. And given how many NYU film students I dated in my youth, that is really saying something.

also i think a fleeting moment in a video isn't going to get as much traction as amanda palmer's endless media presence and the material she's provided that fuel revives and responses in that thread. also i think cocorosie was very much at the center of some kind of vice mag-sponsored cultural movement, back when vice was engaging with a decent amount of racist trolling.

it seems rude to kessler & crew to keep acting like the attention they're getting is attention for the guy who bailed on them two albums ago

also i know a lot of people who owned the first cocorosie album, back when pitchfork and others were trying to make them happen. they weren't especially big or anything, but i mean everyone who bought the cocorosie album didn't start a band but rather wrote a thinkpiece about their toying with racist imagery.

Really? Carlos isn't in the band any more? He left? Who knew? My goodness this is news no one has ever told me or discussed or, why no one even mentioned that, and you know, I was *wondering* why he didn't turn up at any of the aftershows. Really? He quit or something? Hold the front page! I had ~no idea~.

p.s. one album ago. Paul's only been playing bass for one album.

he bailed before the previous album was released, didn't promote it.

honestly shocked to discover cocorosie went top 30 in france last year. i have not heard about them in so long.