― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 14:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― occasional schroeder (kit brash), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 02:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Adrienne Begley (sparklecock), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 02:57 (seventeen years ago) link
she looked more horsey to me though.
― occasional horse (kit brash), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 07:40 (seventeen years ago) link
(159 points)
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/664/664094/doctor-doom-20051103034219446.jpg
A great villain for the Fantastic Four, a haughty European lord and master that everyone can enjoy foiling. But possibly not as foiled as often as he is cajoled - as Justyn says below, he's not that far from a hero, and his sense of honor is an easier way to get around him than brute force. See particularly his final (or is it?) exit in the Ultimate universe.
Best villain in the Marvel Universe. Because he might not be a villain. (okay, he is.) (Pete Baran)
One of the weird, recurring, barely-buried themes of superhero comics is that supervillains are not so verydifferent from the "heroes" who fight them. And it'snot that hard to imagine a slightly humbled Dr Doomworking alongside the Fantastic Four, since most of the Marvel characters, bad or good, tended to beimmature egomaniacs. There was something heroic andtragic in Doom that made Batman's numerous foes seemlike a pack of bumbling eccentrics. (Justyn Dillingham)
greatest moment: Doom invades Stan and Jack's office and threatensthem with the sight of his naked face. (Vic Fluro)
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 07:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 08:10 (seventeen years ago) link
One of my favourite Doom stories is Secret Wars, actually, where Doom is the clear standout character by virtue of his intelligence, willpower and determination: as soon as he encounters the Beyonder his every action is focused on trying to get some of his power.
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 08:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― Adrienne Begley (sparklecock), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 09:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 09:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 09:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 09:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 09:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 09:55 (seventeen years ago) link
1. acquire power2. work out what to do with it. this will probably involve humiliating the accursed Richards.
― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 11:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 11:38 (seventeen years ago) link
(164 points)
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/7537/joker.jpg
By contrast, you don't know what you're getting with The Joker. Never generally diagnosed beyond 'crazy' (though thankfully no-one that I know of has given him MPD), he tends to range between his two loves - incredibly complicated traps, and just plain killing people. A great combination of the two was his appearance in Gotham Central.
Neither just a comedy crook nor just another psychopath with a fixation (like Clock King or Riddler or whatever), The Joker is best viewed as a sort of R-rated Gremlin. You're not really writing a good Joker story if it isn't made clear that the guy could at any time play hideous mind tricks on random innocent bystanders or kill off one of his own henchmen in some gory fashion for no reason whatsoever; but you're also not doing a good job if he doesn't seem like he could resort to harmless pie-in-the-face or water-squirting flower tricks at any time. It's a very difficult balance of fear and humor to sustain, but when done right it makes The Joker one of the greatest villains of all time. (Daniel Reifferscheid)
Best moment: From Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, when the Phantasm's got him beaten, the whole world (synecdochized as his hideout) burning to hell, the Phantasm's taking him away to who knows what end, and he cackles to his fate. (Leeee)
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 26 October 2006 07:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 26 October 2006 07:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 26 October 2006 07:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 26 October 2006 07:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mark Co (Markco), Thursday, 26 October 2006 07:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 26 October 2006 07:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 26 October 2006 07:52 (seventeen years ago) link
The Joker is a funny one. Okay, the point is the Joker isn't a funny one. There has never been a sympathetic Joker story I can think of which paints his usual abject lack of humour into a tough corner. More importantly the - ahem - Clown Prince Of Crime is supposedly the opposite of Batman, the light agin the dark, which never really works for me. Why would anyone, ever want to become a Joker Henchman.
(Oddly, this is where Harley Quinn works, she is much more sympathetic, and in the Animated series capriciously bad: of course playing off as just a mere prankster lacks the "horror" of the Joker. But who wants spine shattering horror.)
― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 26 October 2006 08:36 (seventeen years ago) link
STOP BEING A SPOILER!
― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 26 October 2006 08:41 (seventeen years ago) link
I imagine signing up for Joker henchery is what you do when you need money desperately and nobody else will let you hench for them.
― Vic F (Vic Fluro), Thursday, 26 October 2006 11:09 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 26 October 2006 11:32 (seventeen years ago) link
Haha, no way.
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 26 October 2006 11:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 26 October 2006 11:50 (seventeen years ago) link
He's an interesting duck, with the years' interpretations of murderous, humorous, psychotic, etc. My favorite of Batman's rogues, aside from Ra's Al Ghul & Talia.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Joker-1.jpg
― lumberingwoodsman (Chris Hill), Thursday, 26 October 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link
Ghost World was number 10 in the greatest comics of all time poll, I'd be surprised if Enid wouldn't have made the top 10. I bet there are enough ILCors, myself included, who identify with her.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 26 October 2006 13:57 (seventeen years ago) link
(except I wasn't lying about Maggot)
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 26 October 2006 14:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 26 October 2006 14:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― lumberingwoodsman (Chris Hill), Thursday, 26 October 2006 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 26 October 2006 17:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― occasional mongrel (kit brash), Thursday, 26 October 2006 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link
10) Lord Fanny9) Wolverine8) Enid7) William Gull6) Lucy5) Galactus4) Krazy Kat3) Calvin2) Captain Haddock1) Batman
Given how much people love the Fantastic Four, I think Mr. Fantastic might be there instead of Lord Fanny or Wolverine, but on the other hand he's rather boring as a character, isn't the?
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 27 October 2006 07:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 27 October 2006 07:23 (seventeen years ago) link
(181 points)
http://www.bdoubliees.com/charliemensuel/sfig1/krazykat/a1.jpg
No idea, to be honest.
What exactly IS Krazy Kat? Clearly he/she/it is even less of a cat than Ignatz is a mouse. Krazy's more like an ethereal spirit out of "The Tempest," not quite at home in the prosaic, mundane world of Officer Pupp and Ignatz, with its laws and jailhouses. He/she/it can't understand Ignatz's petty loathing or Officer Pupp's devotion; Krazy sees their deadly thirty-year war as a game between two friends. "The comic delusions of Don Quixote — the sheep and the windmills — fall away as the narrative progresses, but they are far from mere foolishness," Kenneth Rexroth wrote. "They are misreadings of intent, misunderstandings of the powerful mana, the secret force, with which windmills and sheep and the commonplace life of the country inns and farmhouses of the Spanish highlands are surcharged." So it is with Krazy, who correctly reads Ignatz's demented obsessionwith him/her/it as a sort of love. What would any of them do without each other? (Justyn Dillingham)
Best moment - Every single time Ignatz beaned him with a brick. (David Simpson)
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 27 October 2006 08:19 (seventeen years ago) link
five comic strips (Calvin, Charlie Brown, Krazy Kat, Pogo, Scrooge), five indies (Buddy, Cerebus, Enid, Hopey, Maggie), five 2000ADs (Crazy Jane, Johnny Alpha, Judge Dredd, Shade, Zenith), five Marvels (Black Panther, Dr Doom, Galactus, JJJ, Mr. Fantastic), and five DC (Batman, Bullseye, Rorschach/The Question, The Joker).
After this, you're on your own.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 27 October 2006 08:40 (seventeen years ago) link
I don't think we *need* a sympathetic Joker story, tbh.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 27 October 2006 08:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pete (Pete), Friday, 27 October 2006 09:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 27 October 2006 09:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ray (Ray), Friday, 27 October 2006 09:56 (seventeen years ago) link
Air Wave (Air Wave)Angel and the Ape (Angel and the Ape)Awesome Andy (She-Hulk)Badger (Badger)Batman (Batman etc.)Bigby (Fables)Black Canary (assorted DC comics)Black Cat (?????)Black Panther - Priest version (Black Panther)Blue Devil (Blue Devil)Buddy Bradley (Hate)Bullseye - Frank Miller version (Daredevil)Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)Captain Haddock (Tintin)Cerebus (Cerebus)Chubby Da Choona (Seaguy)Concrete (Concrete)Destruction (Sandman)Donna Troy (New Teen Titans)Doop (X-Statix)Dr Blasphemy (Brat Pack)Dr John Warforce (W.A.R.Force)Elektra (Elektra:Assassin)Enid Coleslaw (Ghost World)Enigma (Enigma)Frank (Frank)Fritz The Cat (Fritz The Cat)Galactus (Fantastic Four etc.)Genocide (Sleeper)Horse Race Bet Guy (My Filing Technique Is Unstoppable)Johnny Alpha - Wagner/Ezquerra version (Strontium Dog)Johnny The Homicidal Maniac (Johnny the Homicidal Maniac)Kano (Bad Company)Kitty Pryde (X-Men etc.)Lord Fanny (The Invisibles)Lucy Van Pelt (Peanuts)Mafalda (Mafalda)Maggie Chascarillo (Love And Rockets)Maggott (X-Men)Marmaduke (Marmaduke)Mary Simpson (The Four Marys)Mastodon (DP7)Mohammed Ali (Superman vs Mohammed Ali)Mr Fantastic (Fantastic Four etc.)Nausicaa (Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind)Nemo (Little Nemo In Slumberland)Oor Wullie (Oor Wullie)Pogo (Pogo)Professor Calculus (Tintin)Ragged Robin (The Invisibles)Rat Creatures (Bone)Rex Morgan, MD (Rex Morgan)Rogue (X-Men)Rogue Trooper (the first one) (2000AD)Shade - Milligan Version (Shade The Changing Man)Silk Spectre - Laurie (Watchmen)Stanley and his Monster (Stanley and his Monster)The Detective (Jason's Norwegian Murder Mystery)the lizard that narrates Enigma (Enigma)The Marsupilami (Spirou and Fantasia)The Mighty Thor (Thor etc.)The Question - O'Neill/Cowan version (The Question)The Spider (The Spider)The Whizzer (?????)Ultimate Peter Parker (Ultimate Spider-Man)Voyager (Psi-Force)William Gull (From Hell)Willoughby Kipling (Doom Patrol)Wulf Sternhammer (2000AD)Zenith (Zenith)
So...
9. Lucy van Pelt8. Enid Coleslaw7. Doop6. Cerebus5. Buddy Bradley4. Calvin3. Captain Haddock2. Batman1. Galactus
Really disappointed The Spider hasn't made it anywhere into the list. Unless you all shock me by voting him into the top ten.
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 27 October 2006 10:06 (seventeen years ago) link
Well, yeah, but I don't think that's necessairly a problem when we're talking about a comic book character. I mean, 80% of the Silver Age to thread, innit? And what about BIZARRO up there?? Or Krazy Kat, come to that?
Anyway, on second thought I *do* sort of sympathise with the Joker, as I did with the Gremlins - discarding all notions of human morality not in the name of revenge or power or wealth or even just pure EVIL but because, hey, it's a laugh, innit? I love loose cannons.
xpost alas, anglo-american axis will certainly insure that my beloved Marsupilami doesn't make the list :(
http://madsenblog.dk/billeder/marsupilami.jpg
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 27 October 2006 10:10 (seventeen years ago) link
60. Opus59. Roy Race58. Corto Maltese57. Martian Manhunter56. Guy Gardner (Giffen/DeM)55. Spider-Man (Dan Slott)54. Acid Archie53. Manhog52. Mo51. Black Lois Lane50. Spider Jerusalem49. Optimus Prime48. Flex Mentallo47. Marv46. Darkseid45. Hellboy44. Mek-Quake43. Tharg The Mighty42. Mona Lisa Ludacristits41. A Homosexual40. Cassidy39. Tara Chace38. Robotman (Grant M)37. Wally West Flash36. Astoria35. Emma Frost34. Robert Crumb33. The Thing32. Jessica Jones31. Dr Manhattan30. Beast29. Daredevil28. Silver Surfer27. Blue Beetle26. John Constantine25. The Spirit24. She-Hulk23. Superman22. Magneto21. Popeye20. Crazy Jane19. Rorschach18. Scrooge McDuck17. Bizarro15. Hopey15. Judge Dredd14. Linus Van Pelt13. Charlie Brown12. Doctor Doom11. The Joker
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 27 October 2006 10:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 27 October 2006 13:12 (seventeen years ago) link
Also the Joker character talk above is reminding me that I actually liked Sam Kieth's Batman/Joker mini from this year a lot.
― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 27 October 2006 13:29 (seventeen years ago) link