Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

Yeah I wonder if a lot of the latter day hate is less predicated on the Joel/Mike split in the end than it is Trace/Bill.

Trace/Bill is what keeps me from exploring the last few seasons - it's just jarring - but Mike hate stems from immediate post-Joel reactions on Usenet etc. I love the 5-7 Mike episodes now, and it's been kinda great to get to discover them. We're working on Sword and the Dragon which has my new favorite OTM riff from Mike himself: "This legend could have used some punching up." Also: the Coleman Francis trilogy, Zombie Nightmare, Incredible Melting Man, Escape 2000... just amazing. The only thing I really miss is the invention exchanges - without them, the effort to come up with that many good host segments starts to show. There are still some great ones, they're just spread a little thinner.

i'm far less inclined to watch the mike hosting bits than the joel ones, but the movies themselves remain top quality through the syfy years imo

gotta check if i still have my vhs dub of Squirm/Case Of Spring Fever

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/coily_sound_bytes

NO SPRIIINGS

fkn hate that guy

"You'll be the first to die!"

I keep being surprised at how many 2nd half season 5/season 6 episodes have yet to get the proper release treatment. Girls Town is so giddily great -- Mamie Van Doren, Paul Anka, Mel Torme, Elinor Donohue, the Platters, general insanity!

We tried to watch Girls Town and were really really turned off by the attempted rape that opens the movie. My girlfriend ended up writing a post about it on an MST3k Facebook group that she frequents - got a pretty mixed reaction. She wasn't condemning the Brains, just questioning their judgment, and/or looking for a somewhat stronger reaction from Mike and the Bots, like they sometimes give to indicate they're really condemning a choice by the filmmakers, not just mocking the badness with which it was made. Anyway, we ditched it for, I think, Rocketship X-M in the end.

Yes, but ... at no point in the movie is Chip's death really taken as any sort of major tragedy or miscarriage of fate/justice. The happy ending comes when both sisters are scot free and Mel Torme gets roughed up by some nuns.

Not invalidating anyone's take; just wondering if there aren't better targets.

Usually they're very attuned to icky subtexts, "ew"-ing their way through the pervasive misogyny of The Brain That Wouldn't Die, for instance.

It was kind of a triggering thing, I dunno. It kinda happens and they just sort of riff on like usual. For me, I'd have appreciated something in the vein of what they do in other scenes, a chorus of "Boos," some "Nobody wants to see this," I dunno. My girlfriend I think really would have just rather they picked a different movie. For both of us it was also a reminder that this episode was made twenty years ago - as long as the time between the early MST3k seasons and some of the movies they riffed!

Ehh, I shouldn't have said "triggering." Just super uncomfortable, touching on very bad memories, etc. But it could be for someone else, I think.

Right, the episode was 20 years ago, and the movie was 60 years ago.

Right......... just saying that the reaction from M&tB is dated in its own way. Like, I would expect literate, sharp, savvy comics in 2014 to 'catch' this scene in a different way today. Even in 1994 it would have been nice, and not out of character based on other episodes of the show where they do call this kind of thing out and make clear that they don't see it as of the same zinging order as "oh isn't this badly plotted" or "oh isn't this quaint."

I fully admit to having no real memory of that sequence. The version I had taped off of cable lopped off the first 20 minutes or so, and I never did see the rest until much later.

IIRC they aren't just simply GOOFING during that bit -- there are definitely a few grumbles from Tom and cheering Elinor's character on and all. That said, it's a good take that I'd never thought of before. (Reminds me of a viewing back in 1993/94 where a bunch of us were watching Eegah!.)

just re-watched the scene (which is longer than i remembered at a minute and a half). the jokes are pretty glib ("oh that kennedy compound," "a weasel ripped my dress -RZZZZ!"), but when the guy falls mike notes "oh look, a moral" - they're pretty glib about the dude's death too. i totally get the scene being a real sour note for the viewer based on their own experiences, but the sequence is pretty OTT in the first place and while they could have underlined a "that is not cool!" stance the way they'd tend to for scenes involving slapping, it'd be a stretch to suggest they leave open the possibility they DO think it's cool.

there's also a "hit him harder!"

if the scene didn't quickly move from "dude ripping dress" to "dude falling down ravine" - if it seemed like the director was actually trying to titillate - i bet they would have spoken up

in a more earnest manner, i mean.

Just watched it again too and, agreed on basically all counts. Contrast with their genuine anger when what's her name gets killed in the final reel of The Girl in Lovers Lane.

All fair posts above. I definitely didn't think the Brains thought the sequence was cool. Maybe it just seemed wide open for a point to be made (through humor or otherwise) that there was something pretty fucked up about the (male) makers of a Wild Good Time Teen Movie thinking this scene was the best way to get the plot rolling. Complete with the people who seem to be the protagonists (? I could be wrong?) just not paying any attention to the screams because they're making out in the car! Ha ha ha! I mean at best it's super super tone deaf, and that should be rife for the MST team's skills to point up in a way that....ehhh, I'm beating a dead horse here, it just bugged us, but y'know, there's plenty other episodes to watch.

Actually it's the main villain (Mel Torme, admittedly, but still) who does nothing even after hearing screams.

One possible reason why the jokes don't take a back seat to indignation is perhaps because it's the first minute of the film. Short of walking out en masse, I'm not sure what they could've done. That's right when Mike and the 'bots have to establish their riffs.

Zero-sum argument, tho.

i definitely think if it was done today they'd be more apt to call out the threat of assault as a plot device, even if the would-be rapist was going to be a puddle a minute later

Or they might have just cut the scene entirely, as they've done with any number of other movies.

Now I'm sort of curious to know what the response was on the MST3k Facebook group. If there's one unintended side-effect of the MST3K mindset that still gives me (minuscule) pause every now and again, it's the total alienation from all contexts that aren't based in postmodernist larffs.

oh man considering my own apparent defensiveness, i can't even imagine what degree of "how DARE you suggest they had any responsibility to acknowledge the audience's potential reaction to sexual violence" facebook would offer

"And now let's watch Willa Cather doing her Baby Snooks impression."

you know, this was a great series, and i never wanted to watch it for 20 years, so i haven't.

Uh...yay? (I mean considering the amount of baseball specific references throughout the series, I figure you would enjoy that!)

you know, this was a great series

100 percent true. Very much agreed. A fantastic and enduring classic TV show. So glad we could share this moment together.

The reaction was mostly defensive as y'all have guessed, plus some people suggesting other ones to avoid (e.g. Sidehackers) and sharing the trivia that up until Sidehackers they supposedly did not have a policy of watching the whole movie before deciding to use it for the show. That sorta confused me and made me wonder: how exactly did their rights agreements work? Were they obligated to run a movie they'd agreed to, or were they just on too tight a budget to drop a movie they'd paid for? Did they come as package deals?

The various things I've seen, via the original episode guide and other posts, was that they could pick individual films but that sometimes there were package deals. Start of season 8 is a good example -- they were plowing their way through a lot of old B/W Universal films that the SciFi Channel had rights to.

That makes sense. I remember in one of the interviews or something, they talk about taking package deals from distributors, who relied on desirable movies to force airers to pay fees for awful B-crap in their archives; for the Brains it was the other way around. Or something like that? But it would surprise me if they were obliged to run all the films in the package. Surely the distributor wouldn't care, so long as they were paid for.

On a lighter note, not sure if this has been posted, but: http://io9.com/wheres-servo-is-the-greatest-mst3k-poster-of-all-ti-1561516889 Hours of fun!

Um...guys?

http://uproxx.com/music/2014/08/theres-a-mystery-science-theater-3000-homage-in-nicki-minajs-new-music-video/

Not really fair that the 'bots don't get to riff the hell out of those lyrics.

This is true.

[url=http://debbiesmanos.blogspot.com/debbie (the little girl from Manos) has a blog of her own, with lots of stories about the film.[/url]

Just announced

So check this out: there's now an official MST3K YouTube channel, and you should subscribe for several reasons:
1. There are FULL-LENGTH episodes like Mitchell that are completely annotated.
2. There are great-quality, exclusive clips and sneak peeks (like the Turkey Day Collection unboxing video), updated regularly.
3. We have some REALLY COOL THINGS coming up very soon which you won't want to miss. Just trust us on that.
Go poke around this new channel, subscribe and enjoy a hefty dose of MST3K today!

http://youtube.com/mst3kofficial

That's great and all, but ...

RIP unauthorized MST3K eps on YouTube?

I wonder. Keep in mind that with the Vimeo deal as well there's definitely some sort of tightening up happening. This isn't surprising, though -- when the Shout Factory deal happened the idea was precisely to cover streaming options in the future, and while we've already seen that with Netflix and Hulu to some degree I suspect the focus will go here instead.

Brain That Wouldn't Die showed here the other day as part of a NY '60s underground series.

I use http://www.club-mst3k.com/ frequently so I'll definitely keep my eye on any sudden influx of dying links.

Keep circulating the links

I'll probably have to start ripping as many YTs as I can in any case.

New Turkey Day marathon, y'all

http://www.nerdist.com/2014/11/exclusive-joel-hodgson-curating-another-mst3k-turkey-day-streaming-marathon/

yaay!

Meantime, while the formal release of the restored/cleaned-up Manos: The Hands of Fate is due soon, you can enjoy the soundtrack now. Really.

https://manoshandsoffate.bandcamp.com/

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2necex/i_am_joel_hodgson_creator_of_mystery_science/

Meantime there's a new official site for videos up:

http://downloadmst3k.com/

It's essentially a Vimeo/Shout Factory partnership.